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Has tarot been made to me more complex than it needs to be?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarotbear View Post
I tend to agree with you in theory. Sometimes I read some of the posts on AT and have no clue what anyone is talking about with the 'Esoteric Mystery Behind the Ninefold Essence of the Third Level of the High Priestess' Belly Button Lint.' Hello? What does this have to do with the question the Querent is looking for an answer to? Is all of this vivisection necessary to tell the Querent not to eat the Hawaiian Pizza and stick with the salad?

The best part of tarot is you don't have to have any of this 'knowledge' to pick up a deck of cards and do a competent reading for yourself or someone else. Even those readers who say 'I always check the Numerology, or the Elemental Dignities or the (fill in the blank with whatever you find most interesting), all I can say sometimes is 'blahblahblah.' The Querent doesn't give a rat's ass if he's the Fire of Water! Have we made things a tad bit over-complicated? On a poll I'd be voting 'YES!'
Tarotbear you always put a huge smile on my face, l nearly choked on my tea! and l couldn't agree with you more. We are of the old school. l self taught myself how to read the tarot putting many hours in perfecting my craft. l never use ED's RX etc. l just look at what l have before me and with the aid of my intuition/psychic senses off l go. My tarot have never let me down and to learn all this new stuff would indeed completely over complicate any readings for me.
Top   #21
greatdane  greatdane is offline
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Marvelous thread, Shadowdancer


Because no matter how one reads, what one's approach or method, this did make us at least think about your question :-). I think tarot must be whatever each reader makes it, needs it, wants it to be. For some it will be one system, some may incorporate many systems depending on the reading, some do it intuitively, some just may stick to the basic meanings of the cards in the most simplistic form. For me, the proof is in the pudding as they say. If it works, it works. As far as being able to make it more or less complex to come to the same conclusion, that is interesting to ponder.
Top   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carla View Post
I don't think it's overcomplicated. I think you can pick and choose what you want to learn, what you want to use when reading (which are not the same things at all, or don't have to be).
I quite agree with you. This quote made me think of Tarot as a decadent buffet. We can put the things we want on our plate and leave the rest on the table for others.
Top   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowdancer View Post
I have been wondering this for a while, but it was piqued by a recent posting on another thread where I mentioned the contra-card system I occasionally use.

I was taught/began my tarot journey in 1986. The guy who taught me was a chirpy Londoner, and he gave the basics. Nothing elaborate. No systems. No symbolic depth. His readings were straight forward. He said what he thought the card meant. No peeling back of layers, psychological analysis, no astrological or numerology associations.
JUST. READ. THE. CARD.

I am sure readers prior to this did pretty much the same? There did not seem to be a dearth of books on the subject around the time I started.
Yet in 17 years or so, the market has exploded. Thousands and thousands of decks now to choose from. Books on every aspect and subject you can think of within this wonderful world of tarot.
Systems abound. Systems within systems. Heck knows how many ways to interpret a card or selection of cards in relation to each other.

So.....

Have we over complicated things? If so, why? Does this enhance or hinder what we are trying to convey? If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, shouldn't we just call call it a duck? Instead of giving in to the urge to elaborate as much as possible, thus losing site of the real nuts and bolts?

If we had a reader from the 1960's looking in for a brief while, what would they be thinking as they take in the whole sway of publications now dedicated to different ways of reading tarot?

Anyways enough ponderings from me. This really did come to mind when I listened to a podcast some time ago. The main guest was a person who was pretty down to earth. They were discussing a deck they had involvement with. The presenter then took two cards for further discussion as to how they could be read. Heck, the presenter certainly lost me at 'hello'. They tried to really go deep, psychoanalyse etc, and the end result was far from what the guest had really intended. Was the presenter trying to be clever? I don't think so. I think they had fallen into the trap of going down the analysis road and the result was a tangled mess, far from what was needed.

My take? I think we have perhaps gone just a little too far. The next round of authors will try to find a different angle, a different method, a different way. After all the field is already saturated with books so there will be pressure to be different and new. And so the world of tarot becomes a little bit more elaborate and complex.
Yet most of the time, I should be calling out the duck in the room.
I think its a personal thing. Some of us take it further than others. Some people really like the study part of it. But not eveyone takes it to the same degree. We all take it as far as we care to.

I only learnt about 9 years ago, but I never did a lot of study. I read the history part once just out of curiousity. Read some books on techique whcih i think you have to do,.and that you can't just make up how to read completley from scratch.

I took a very easy route peronally. I never studied the cards much, I never study new decks. I just developed my method, mainly by trying methods I had heard , a lot of trial and error, adn inventing some new methods and off I went.

All I ever memorized was short meaning of the Majors, of the the suits and how I intended to use the Courts. I refer the Minors back to the Major of the same number and add in the suit. So that is all I ever had to memorize.

I read mainly through the card image, so I rarely even read the books that come with decks. I just pick up the deck and go.

I never studying anything really, I don't know what an elemental diginity and don't care. I developed my methid, to works very well for me.And now I did not study anything else, Not Numerology, no astrology, or anything else at all. My way was very easy,did not require much study and it works well for me anyway,

But if some people enjoy the studying, good for them. It's all in what calls to and in what you enjoy. That was not my thing, I just wanted to learn and to get on with the reading.

Babs
Top   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatdane View Post
Because no matter how one reads, what one's approach or method, this did make us at least think about your question :-). I think tarot must be whatever each reader makes it, needs it, wants it to be. For some it will be one system, some may incorporate many systems depending on the reading, some do it intuitively, some just may stick to the basic meanings of the cards in the most simplistic form. For me, the proof is in the pudding as they say. If it works, it works. As far as being able to make it more or less complex to come to the same conclusion, that is interesting to ponder.
Very well put. It can be anything we want it to be, and that is a good thing. So each of us can find the way that best suits their needs and tastes.

Babs
Top   #25
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There are so many systems and systems within systems that are associated with the Tarot and that make it feel incredibly complex. An onlooker or a Tarot beginner would look at this and probably completely freak out with how much stuff they have to learn to be able to master the cards. (And perhaps this is why Tarot is portrayed in such complex ways – to deter the beginner?!)

I am a strong believer that when you’re starting out, start SIMPLE. Yes the Tarot can be linked in with spiritual systems like Kaballah and with astrology. But you can still read the cards without knowing all of this stuff. Like that guy said, Just Read The Card!

As you build your confidence or you have more space in your brain to take on new knowledge, then go exploring into all the wonderful complexities of the Tarot. It is amazing what’s in there and that is why we love the Tarot – because it is so inter-connected and complex. But don’t feel you have to get all this before you can start using the Tarot cards.
Top   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biddy9 View Post
There are so many systems and systems within systems that are associated with the Tarot and that make it feel incredibly complex. An onlooker or a Tarot beginner would look at this and probably completely freak out with how much stuff they have to learn to be able to master the cards. (And perhaps this is why Tarot is portrayed in such complex ways – to deter the beginner?!)

I am a strong believer that when you’re starting out, start SIMPLE. Yes the Tarot can be linked in with spiritual systems like Kaballah and with astrology. But you can still read the cards without knowing all of this stuff. Like that guy said, Just Read The Card!

As you build your confidence or you have more space in your brain to take on new knowledge, then go exploring into all the wonderful complexities of the Tarot. It is amazing what’s in there and that is why we love the Tarot – because it is so inter-connected and complex. But don’t feel you have to get all this before you can start using the Tarot cards.
I agree with the idea of simplicity. Tarot cards are simply symbolic images. Tarot has a relatively simple structure, too and that alone makes it 'tarot'.

People can develop spiritually using all sorts of systems and that may enhance their intuition, self-knowledge and wisdom which could enhance their tarot reading but not necessarily.

There are some people who attribute more to tarot than there is. It is simply a system of reading symbolic language. It is wonderful because of its simplicity but its not sacred and does not have an 'identity' of its own.

It's just a system of cards with images. Some people use it to tap into an inner wisdom and sense of the divine. Other people use art, music, poetry, science to the same.

I have not worked out (and it doesn't really matter ) whether it was a good or bad thing that the New Age got involved with tarot. If they had not, however, I may not have found it myself. It opened some doors for me to other things.
Top   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
I don't think it is either ever a question of isn't broke don't fix it, or too complicated. .
That's just my philosophy for myself, not meant as a command to everyone else. It works for me so I'm not going to "fix it". I think everyone else has to do---or not do---whatever works for them.
Top   #28
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An interesting article which some of you may have seen:


http://networkedblogs.com/tnQmy

I have heard Dr. Irena Semetsky speak and lead her audience through a relationship reading she did with a client.

Even though she has a profound knowledge of symbolic language, the reading was simple and clear, something which shows Dr. Semetsky's gifts. I felt that her observations were enhanced by her extensive knowledge but she added nothing to the structure of the tarot itself. She used simple and clear language.

Mind you, I accept that symbolism can lead one into other fields, just like a recipe can be simple or exotic and complicated. A person can get as much sustenance from a simple salad as from a very elaborate one, though perhaps my metaphor might make some wince.

Whilst anyone can use the tarot alongside astrology, the kabbalah or even herbalism, and find that effective for themselves, tarot as a system does not need that.

Unless you are prepared to do more than dabble in the studies extant to tarot you run a risk of losing the integrity of your reading work if you try to combine them, I believe.
Top   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momentarylight View Post
An interesting article which some of you may have seen:


http://networkedblogs.com/tnQmy

I have heard Dr. Irena Semetsky speak and lead her audience through a relationship reading she did with a client.

Even though she has a profound knowledge of symbolic language, the reading was simple and clear, something which shows Dr. Semetsky's gifts. I felt that her observations were enhanced by her extensive knowledge but she added nothing to the structure of the tarot itself. She used simple and clear language.

Mind you, I accept that symbolism can lead one into other fields, just like a recipe can be simple or exotic and complicated. A person can get as much sustenance from a simple salad as from a very elaborate one, though perhaps my metaphor might make some wince.
.

Thank you for the link you have given, had a quick look, but want to really give time to this as it looks very interesting. l have put it into my favourites on the pc. l will look forward to spending time having a good read.
Top   #30




 

 


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