The Fool

Marsy

I would say that yes it is saying literally he feels like a fool especially with the 5 of swords which means he's in a no win situation and feels defeated in where he is in the relationship.
 

mysticangel_001

Maybe it was as simple as someone new - maybe a chance encounter - totally turning his head. Not so much what he wanted, but what irresistably lured him into changing his mind.

THIS! This right here is what I wondered about? There is someone else he likes, a lot, and though he hasn't ended his relationship with the one in question most people see it as only a matter of time before he does.
 

mysticangel_001

Humanity has always needed that one person who does foolish things to make us laugh--which is why there have always been fools at royal courts, and clueless characters in plays. And yes, we in civilized times know it's cruel to laugh or mock people who aren't trying to make us laugh; who are just making honest mistakes. But we still play pranks and laugh at those who fall for them--and they laugh at falling for them too. We still watch comedies where people make dumb mistakes and, in scrambling to fix them, escalate their folly. We still love comedians who entertain us with monologues of their foolish moves. And, yes, sometimes that laughter is because the person looked at the thing very wrongly in their ignorance, in a way we never expected, in a way that might delight us as well as make us laugh (fish-out-of-water stories are all about such folly).

Ultimately, however, we're not laughing at them, but because these Fools help us to see, know, and laugh at ourselves. At the stupid things we've done. And in that laughter, we forgive ourselves for those times when we've been a Fool.

THAT is why the Fool is a major arcana. Yes, he can sometimes be an innovator that others see as foolish ("Men weren't meant to fly! What is that fool doing trying to create wings?") And there are those who are wise beyond their time that others mock because they're the fools and they don't understand. BUT, the Fool isn't just a major, an archetype for them. He is also a major, and archetype for our actual folly. Our actual dumb mistakes. The ones we make and post on YouTube for everyone to laugh at...and for us to laugh at as well, remembering, forgiving, learning from, and understanding that being silly, being clownish, being stupid, being unwise, is quintessentially human.

Answer to your question: YES. The Fool can stand for literally being a Fool. And I agree, given how you've described this girl, that this person got that card likely because she hasn't changed at all. What's changed is his perspective. The cards might be saying: "She hasn't changed, you Fool! She was always like this. You were too foolishly blind to see it."

Thank you Thirteen, you explained this card and the meaning of it very well. I have often thought that the Fool could represent how someone literally feels about the situation that was asked about, but I know that the books describe it as a new beginning and taking a leap of faith to try this something new. I guess it is true that sometimes you just have to go with your gut feeling on these cards and veer from the normal meaning for a reading to make sense.
 

mysticangel_001

I would say that yes it is saying literally he feels like a fool especially with the 5 of swords which means he's in a no win situation and feels defeated in where he is in the relationship.

I agree with your take on this. He is unhappy, he complains constantly about his relationship and how he is treated, and it is sad to see. When she isn't around he is happy and fun to be around but when she is around (which is most of the time) he is angry and people avoid him.
 

Barleywine

THIS! This right here is what I wondered about? There is someone else he likes, a lot, and though he hasn't ended his relationship with the one in question most people see it as only a matter of time before he does.

In fact, he might very well feel "sheepish" (or foolish) about being caught in the middle of this situation (as much for his reputation as for its effect on her), which is why he's hanging back. But in a positive sense the Fool portends a "new chapter" for him, if not so happily for her.
 

Michael Sternbach

Hmm, I'm not sure if I'm getting this right. On the one hand, when I wrote:

It could be either. Even though in case of the former, more precisely, it would be the reverse: He is acting stupid (at least from her view), that is, moving from one relationship to another on a whim, without giving real devotion to any, that's why his feelings changed. He might call it "following his heart." It is quite possible that this was his attitude right from the beginning. Some men (and women) are wired that way, at least during a certain stage of their development.

you replied:

Eh, I don't know about that. They have been together for 13 years and it has just been the last couple of years that he has had a change of feelings. His two previous relationships lasted about 5 years each, so he doesn't really jump from one to another on a whim.

On the other hand, to Barleywine's thought

Maybe it was as simple as someone new - maybe a chance encounter - totally turning his head. Not so much what he wanted, but what irresistably lured him into changing his mind.

your answer was:

THIS! This right here is what I wondered about? There is someone else he likes, a lot, and though he hasn't ended his relationship with the one in question most people see it as only a matter of time before he does.

So it was just the emphasis that was a little off in my post- he did follow after another woman on a whim, after all?

I agree with your take on this. He is unhappy, he complains constantly about his relationship and how he is treated, and it is sad to see. When she isn't around he is happy and fun to be around but when she is around (which is most of the time) he is angry and people avoid him.

So he is feeling at ease and natural when she isn't around - just like the Fool! I'd say, he longs to be like that again most of the time. That's the deeper reason why he started rejecting her and fell for another. The Fool makes perfect sense, from this perspective.
 

mysticangel_001

Hmm, I'm not sure if I'm getting this right. On the one hand, when I wrote:



you replied:



On the other hand, to Barleywine's thought



your answer was:



So it was just the emphasis that was a little off in my post- he did follow after another woman on a whim, after all?



So he is feeling at ease and natural when she isn't around - just like the Fool! I'd say, he longs to be like that again most of the time. That's the deeper reason why he started rejecting her and fell for another. The Fool makes perfect sense, from this perspective.

I guess I was focusing more on what you said about that being his attitude right from the beginning. I saw that as meaning that he wasn't interested in settling down, which is why I pointed out the length of his relationships with her and his two former wives. I see 5 years (and especially 13 years) as seriously long periods of time because my longest relationship has been 3 years. LOL
 

mysticangel_001

Hmm, I'm not sure if I'm getting this right. On the one hand, when I wrote:



you replied:



On the other hand, to Barleywine's thought



your answer was:



So it was just the emphasis that was a little off in my post- he did follow after another woman on a whim, after all?



So he is feeling at ease and natural when she isn't around - just like the Fool! I'd say, he longs to be like that again most of the time. That's the deeper reason why he started rejecting her and fell for another. The Fool makes perfect sense, from this perspective.

Sorry, double post
 

mysticangel_001

In fact, he might very well feel "sheepish" (or foolish) about being caught in the middle of this situation (as much for his reputation as for its effect on her), which is why he's hanging back. But in a positive sense the Fool portends a "new chapter" for him, if not so happily for her.


That is very possible. He is in a situation that isn't comfortable for anyone involved. I know the wife suspects the worst but can't prove it...mainly because "the worst" hasn't actually happened yet.