There’s a broken wheel on the gurney

Nevada said:

The most important thing is to not rob the person of their own power over their life and their decisions, to never presume to tell them that you have the answers for them, or that what you say is the end-all and be-all of TRUTH for them. It's not.
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To pretend to be anything else but a Tarot reader when reading Tarot is wrong. To take someone else's power, even if they want to hand it over, is wrong and dangerous.

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It's as my husband said to one of his young persistent customers for stone-casting: "You're smarter than a bunch of rocks!"

Many many wise words in this thread. I can't even add anything of my own here. Which is probably just fine.

Morwenna said:

"You're smarter than a bunch of rocks!"

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I know people I'd describe as having all the intelligence of a moderately well-educated ... carrot.

Or the brains of a battered sav (that last is my ex-not-quite-mother-in-law).

(You can tell that food items figure large in my thinking).

Well, we here would say "You're smarter than a pack of cards!" (Hmm... didn't Alice say something akin to that in Wonderland?)

Either tarot is a serious pursuit, or its not. If it is, then it certainly can be used to read for serious issues, like health, the law & pregnancy. That's not to say it should always be used for these issue, or used by everyone equally, only to say that it certainly can be used and also be of benefit.

If tarot is not a serious pursuit, then we've got no business using it to read for anything, better to have it as a game played in casino's for winning the biggest pile of plastic chips exchangable for cash and liquor.

I really don't think the issue should be what the topic of a reading is about, that seems irrelevant to me. The issue should be how we use tarot, not what we use it on. In a serious situation that calls for caution, if we choose to use tarot we should use it seriously and cautiously. In a silly situation, then we can use it in a silly way.

If someone thinks tarot is a silly game and can't be used when the stakes are high, then more power to them. I disagree however, I think tarot is something of value and use it frequently when others would prefer I didn't. More power to me I say. But its great this discussion has a thread of its own, maybe then topic will stay out of threads where the topic is about reading for health, and not about if we should or not

Some readers I know read about their own pregnancies, it is no biggy, and I do not personally mind reading for my own pregnancy either. But what's this got to do with reading the health of others? Basically that we wouldn't give them what we wouldn't give to ourselves. I don't see the problem.

Some people miss like giving the message "you WILL die!", but if it says that in the card then tell it. Of course Tarot is rarely (if ever) this stringent and nonyielding. I find poker cards to be more like this (Ace of Spades means death).

Kibeth said:

Some people miss like giving the message "you WILL die!", but if it says that in the card then tell it. Of course Tarot is rarely (if ever) this stringent and nonyielding. I find poker cards to be more like this (Ace of Spades means death).

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So, let me get this right: you get Ace of Spades and then tell the querent "You are going to die."

Is that really what you mean?

If so, may I never, ever even THINK of going to a playing card reader.

The thing about predicting death is that you will ALWAYS be right.... eventually. But in between now and then can create whole worlds of anxiety.

Aerin

similia said:

Either tarot is a serious pursuit, or its not. If it is, then it certainly can be used to read for serious issues, like health, the law & pregnancy. That's not to say it should always be used for these issue, or used by everyone equally, only to say that it certainly can be used and also be of benefit.

If tarot is not a serious pursuit, then we've got no business using it to read for anything, better to have it as a game played in casino's for winning the biggest pile of plastic chips exchangable for cash and liquor.

I really don't think the issue should be what the topic of a reading is about, that seems irrelevant to me. The issue should be how we use tarot, not what we use it on. In a serious situation that calls for caution, if we choose to use tarot we should use it seriously and cautiously. In a silly situation, then we can use it in a silly way.

If someone thinks tarot is a silly game and can't be used when the stakes are high, then more power to them. I disagree however, I think tarot is something of value and use it frequently when others would prefer I didn't. More power to me I say. But its great this discussion has a thread of its own, maybe then topic will stay out of threads where the topic is about reading for health, and not about if we should or not

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I was just reading through this thread and was having the same thoughts and wondering how to put it...but you did a better job than I would have thank you...
For me either I trust the cards or I don't and if I don't then I will stop reading.
Who are we really talking about here?
People who use scare tactics to get people to buy other juju shit to protect them from the bad, dire predictions that just happened to come up in their cards?
Little newbee readers so excited to read on anything and everything, that they don't have the experience or hindsight to stop and think about the power of their words?
Or a responsible tarot reader who knows how to tactfully and carefully read for a delicate question, and send a questioner away with some hope?
I've noticed two things about the scores of new readers that constantly shuffle through the fairs where I work.
1- If they come with a big "I know it all" ego intact they will eventually scare the bujessus out of some client...
And 2- It will freak them out so badly they stop reading.
Why? Because they suddenly recognise what an awesome responsibility it is to set yourself up as the presenter of future facts for someone else's life.
And that, if done irresponsibly, means someone is eventually going to get hurt.
They shouldn't give their power away to anyone else..I agree, but they will and they do, everyday, in other situations...they are confused and don't trust themselves...
They give their power away to doctors and lawyer and their mother-in-law... and here you are sitting with a sign in front of you saying "Come here, come closer, I can help."
You bet your boopy they're going to sigh with relief, sit down, and snuggle up to every word you have to say.
The readers who stay, the ones who make it, trust their cards, leave the ego at the door, and read with compassion....keeping uppermost in mind "how would I want the same information presented to me."
For me it's not a matter of what I read on...and I have read on some pretty kookie stuff...it's how I present it and how I protect myself in doing it.
Getting the bujessus scared out of you as a reader is not a bad thing...it makes you re-evaluate and often skims the scum off the top of the barrel.
I don't think some reader have lost thier minds, I think most know exactly what they are doing, fulling their pockets or their egos...
What I think they have really lost is their conscience.
Please keep in mind that I am out in the world of professional readers...so I might see this from a different perspective...half the readers I know are very responsible, got it together people, the other half are not.
And clients are not dumb, but they are often confused and not willing to take responsibility for their own lives and the messes they have made of them.
So this clouds their judgment....keeping this in mind it is easy to see how easy it is to take advantage.
In a community like this we seem to take one side or another...but ultimately out in the real world when it is just you, a little table, and a client with big, wide, wondering eyes looking back at you...a deck of cards in the middle...the choices gets harder.
But with that said they are my choices....and I will always reserve the right to make them.

Aerin said:

So, let me get this right: you get Ace of Spades and then tell the querent "You are going to die."

Is that really what you mean?

If so, may I never, ever even THINK of going to a playing card reader.

The thing about predicting death is that you will ALWAYS be right.... eventually. But in between now and then can create whole worlds of anxiety.

Aerin

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Totally, completely and absolutely what Aerin said

When I recall the damage done to my young friend and her anxiety all through her children's very young childhoods - well, I will forever be conscious of the damage we can so easily do.

To be sure, I have never read playing cards for anyone but myself before, knowing them to be stiffer than tarot in meaning, a lot stiffer. I don't use em' for people.

But as this topic pertain to tarot cards, I'd say the cards aren't like that. If you did cartomancy, you'd know what I mean. Death card in tarot rarely means physical death but 3 of swords may mean death. You see ... there's this room to maneuver in tarot that you do not find in cartomancy. Rarely, if ever, is tarot absolute. Since it isn't absolute, you've got to tell the reader the possible paths the future for instance might take, of which giving one path alone is a crime. And it will be correct!

I imagine if there was a death in the family, Ace Spades would appear.
If there's a challenge needing to be overcome Ace of Spades would appear.
But doing cartomancy is a choice stemming from knowing what potent strength the playing cards possess and choosing to use it or in my case not to use it. I daresay I never touched it for reading for other people or of other people.

I do see cartomancers on the streets offering their services, with playing cards. Apparently their meaning for Ace of Spades is exactly as I've said. It might be that they're serious and didn't answer a querant's questions lightly, that point of view I understand. But if it were because a stack of poker cards were cheaper than the standard tarot deck, woe it is indeed.

Thank you for clarifying what you meant.

I am reminded of a story once told to me by a trainer in non-tarot context. He was talking about respect of people's boundaries, and some of the problems that can result if this isn't done.

He said that he was once consulted by someone who felt that she was being stalked. In a confrontational way, he asked her 'Have you ever stepped over another's boundary?' It turned out that she belived she could see people's futures and was in the habit of going up to people uninvited and just telling them whatever she thought she saw. Up to and including 'You are dying of cancer', 'Your uncle is going to die' and so-on. His theory was that she was, in a way, causing herself to feel stalked because she was trampling all over other people's boundaries. Just made me wonder, how much is this about boundaries and where to draw them for ourselvs and others?

I make no judgement as to whether what she saw truly or with shadows.

This is different because you could say 'well the querent asked...' but is that always the case? How is it the same? I feel there is something here as the story hasn't occurred to me for years and years which is why I tell it now.

Aerin

ps and yes, the story goes that she did stop feeling stalked when she had tackled the issue of what it was appropriate to do with her gift, and what it was not.