Rider Waite linked with alternative Kabbala?

SerpentaAzothi

Hi, according to another method with the kabbala, I have noticed that the sephiroths in this kabbala reflects with the rider waite minors. Here is a list of the kabbala arrangement:

1-Kether-Pluto
2-Chockma-Neptune
3-Binah-Uranus
4-Chesed-Jupiter
5-Geburah-Saturn
6-Tifereth-Venus
7-Netzach-Mars(left not right on the tree of life)
8-Hod-mercury (on the right instead of netzach)
9-Yesode-Moon
10-Malkuth-The Sun

I got that from C.C. Zains tarot book. Anyway to continue...

An example of this theory works just like using the thoth or golden dawn with the meanings of the minors 1-10 as sepiroths. The following explains...

As an example the 7 of wands- It has seven wands one in hand, the one in his hand he is trying to fight a battle, with too many wands attacking him. The seven in this system as shown above rules mars, and since it is a wands fire card, wouldnt this be a mars like battle. Going straight into battle? In the normal tree of life it is venus. How does venus relate to this card? I dont see a connection.

Even the traditional tree of life names Netzach victory. But isnt that Mars doings? Anyway, the whole deck is littered with clues that Waite was using the other kabbalistic tree of life theory, but it seems the Majors are using the traditional. The Court cards I am still trying to find out. Anyway looking forward to comments.

Serpenta
 

job

slightly confused

Hi
Just a few questions! :)

The tree of life: Do we (humans) work our way up, and G*d works down?
Is the tree a representation of us?

I've read that the path between Kether and Chockma is The Fool. Is this correct when applying to tarot?

I haven't really seen the tree until now, thus the questions!
(of course anyone who knows can answer!!)
 

kwaw

SerpentaAzothi said:
Hi, according to another method with the kabbala, I have noticed that the sephiroths in this kabbala reflects with the rider waite minors. Here is a list of the kabbala arrangement:

1-Kether-Pluto
2-Chockma-Neptune
3-Binah-Uranus
4-Chesed-Jupiter
5-Geburah-Saturn
6-Tifereth-Venus
7-Netzach-Mars(left not right on the tree of life)
8-Hod-mercury (on the right instead of netzach)
9-Yesode-Moon
10-Malkuth-The Sun

I got that from C.C. Zains tarot book. Anyway to continue...

the whole deck is littered with clues that Waite was using the other kabbalistic tree of life theory, but it seems the Majors are using the traditional.

Pluto was discovered by Clyde W. Tombaugh on February 18, 1930, 20 odd years after the creation of the Smith/Waite deck.

Kwaw
 

Ross G Caldwell

The following is just my opinion...

I think the early attempts to accommodate Uranus (or "Herschel"), Neptune and Pluto to the Sephiroth are mistaken. They are patch-up jobs as our scientific understanding of the Solar System increased exponentially in the last 4 centuries - but the Tree of Life, or better Creation by Emanations, is much older, and relies on wisdom and intuitive knowledge, not technology and science.

We know scientifically that Pluto is only one of many planetoid objects; it is no longer "officially" a planet. There are others larger than it out there. The Moon is not actually a planet either - and of course, the Sun is a star, not a planet.

You can see that the attribution of planets to sephiroth is ad hoc, and geocentric. I believe it should stay that way, and not try to be a scientific scheme. It maps the soul and its relationship to the heavens better than an astronomical map of the heavens, precisely because we experience the earth as fixed, the Sun appears to revolve around us, the Moon appears to be merely the closest planet, and Saturn is the furthest and slowest planet we can see with our eyes. Beyond that was only theory, until the invention of the telescope. The theory was wrong, but the spiritual truth of sephiroth and astrology really does reflect our daily life-experience, and hence the inner life that grows from that experience.

As for Venus being Victory and Netzach, Venus is Istar the Goddess of Love and War. Even in classical mythology, she and Mars mated to produce Cupid - who shoots arrows for love or hatred. Venus is also Victoria, deified Victory. You might also think of Athena or Diana, since they have no planets or places for them on the tree.

Mars as Severity or Geburah seems still more applicable to me - and reflects Saturn as Binah immediately above. Saturn is more severe than Mars still, but his reflection in the "real" world can be asceticism or violence, which are closely related practices. The transcendental Saturn is really just a contemplative, but has a clear view of what is beyond.

Even though Uranus and Neptune affect the horoscope, I don't think they deserve a place on the Tree of Emanations. The metaphorical relationship breaks down with Saturn, the last planet we are naturally capable of seeing. And the Tree of Life is not a scientific theory.
 

kwaw

Ross G Caldwell said:
The following is just my opinion...

You can see that the attribution of planets to sephiroth is ad hoc, and geocentric.

Based upon assumed distance based upon apparent mean daily motion; yes Geocentric, but note that the two inferior planets Mercury and Venus are between Earth [Malkuth] and Sun [Tifareth] and the Outer Planets [Mars, Jupiter and Saturn] above it, the Sun [Tifareth] is in the centre; thus both Geocentric and Heliocentric;)

Also the central column gives us Earth [Malkuth] = rotation gives us daily cycle, followed by Moon [Yesod] Monthly Cycle, followed by Sun [Tifareth] Yearly Cycle; all with the fixed stars cycling round the centre of the Great Year cycle [Kether].

Kwaw
 

job

Got my answers from a particularly good thread by rebecca-smiles.
:)
 

wytchwood

job said:
Hi
Just a few questions! :)

The tree of life: Do we (humans) work our way up, and G*d works down?
Is the tree a representation of us?

I've read that the path between Kether and Chockma is The Fool. Is this correct when applying to tarot?

I haven't really seen the tree until now, thus the questions!
(of course anyone who knows can answer!!)

It's supposed to be like a map of the emanations of God. Creation flows from the top down, and we (well, the ones that want to) are meant to work our way up and walk the paths between the spheres.

Zoe ;)
 

job

Ooooh....Things are getting clearer!

Thank you Zoe! :)