Eggplants?

OH I know - I didn't see that clearly until I posted it! TEEHEE!

jmd said:

Flowering plants have various stages in their development...

As an example, take the 'simple' Dog Rose - I choose this as a very important symbolic plant, by the way.

Not only does it have leaf, but it has a further development of the same in the bud, which then becomes flower, and then drops to reveal its seed-pod, the rosehip, in which is contained abundance of seed for a further generation of plants. In some ways, it can be viewed that the whole plant is contained in each and everyone of those seeds.

Not only leaves, then, but vine/branch, flower, and fruit...

Click to expand...

Nicely said, jmd.

This may be meaning less in terms of the Tarot, but eggplant is one of a group of vegetables known as nightshade vegetables. In the grouping are tomato, eggplant, red and green pepper, (paprika ) and white potato.

Interestingly, this group of vegetables is said to contain a substance that can cause joint pain. Many arthritis sufferers are told to discontinue eating these vegs. to curtail arthritis pain.

One of the things that I find interesting about all the plant matter in the pips is that at it's most basic symbolic level a plant that is vining or twining is obviously healthy, fertile and a symbol of growth. Look tho, at the propagtion of plants. Virtually sexless. You have fertilization via wind, or assisted by bees, hummers and other flyers that cross pollinate the plant.

So, I wonder how much of the imagery is pointing to creation and growth as sexless, and pretty much sterile. I say this and want readers to know I have not studied really anything on the TdM, and probably have no business commenting, however it is interesting to me being a gardener.

Now, if we look at eggplants, they do look somewhat phallic but a case could be made about the eggplant as female as well. And the lovely royal, spiritual color purple is there as well.

I may be rambling, but sometimes my best ideas are born out of the rambling....this may not be one of them!

Eggplants are native to the New World. This doesn't preclude the debated objects from being eggplants in the Marseilles decks, but it would rule this particular vegetable out for the earliest incarnations of tarot. Do the Visconti-Sforza decks have similar forms on the pips?

I do not know when eggplants were brought to Europe, but it might be interesting to find out.

Re: The botany of Marseilles pips

Rusty Neon said:

I have searched in vain in the public library for non-tarot books (e.g., art history books) and on the Internet for non-tarot webpages, that explain 17th-18th century artwork plant symbolism. If anybody has any leads, it sure would be appreciated.

Click to expand...

Have you checked Herbals?

I am referring here to the Hadar Marseille - I have a Camoin and a Dodal coming, I will be sure now to compare this thing between the three. I'm not sure how I feel at the moment about collecting photo-reproductions. I am sure they are worth having for the serious collector but at the moment, collecting for the sake of collecting is a bit out of my reach. If anybody can check this card in an antique deck to see if it looks so eggplanty, I would certainly appreciate it. The info I found was actually in North African symbology. As to how far this dates back I couldn't be certain but it said any fruit that was black in color, including the eggplant, black olives, that sort of thing, were represenatitve of mourning. (And I really like olives, darn!)

I have the Visconti Gold, and there's no eggplant, just some leafy greenery and some tiny flowers, which, as someone who is pretty clueless about botany, I'm not able to identify them. I check my Fournier Marseille, and although it's a tad different, it still looks more like an eggplant than anything else to me.

This thread is making me crave baba ganoush.

...making me wanna try eggplant, it's never appealed to me at all before!!

Mmm edible Tarot...

Originally posted by Rusty Neon
I have searched in vain in the public library for non-tarot books (e.g., art history books) and on the Internet for non-tarot webpages, that explain 17th-18th century artwork plant symbolism. If anybody has any leads, it sure would be appreciated.

Click to expand...

Rusty Neon, I did a research on medieval plant symbolism in art some years ago. I have a large bibliography (thought in fact there are very few essays on the subject), and I can send it by email, if you want to; but I think it would give you too much work for little benefit. Here goes a list of some sites, as you’ve probably found by yourself there is not much information in the net either. Notice that the focus in on the medieval period.

Silvia


http://www.udayton.edu/mary/gallery/exhibits/barrish01.html

http://ww2.netnitco.net/users/legend01/cross.htm

http://www.kensmen.com/catholic/marygardens.html

http://www.lehigh.edu/~jahb/herbs/medievalgardens.htm

http://www.cottagegardener.com/newpage11.htm

http://www.godecookery.com/mtales/mtales16.htm

http://www.florilegium.org/files/PLANTS/A-Med-Garden-art.rtf

http://www.mgardens.org/JS-FOOLGATC-MG.html

http://histm.free.fr/jardin.htm

http://www.lib.udel.edu/ud/spec/exhibits/hort/herbals.htm

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/medny/herbgdn1.html

http://www.luc.edu/publications/medieval/vol6/schaeffe.html