Your take on reading for a third person : ethical or not ?

Carojulie

Hello,

I have a question about ethics.

One of my rules that I try to stand for, and that I announce to my querents, is that I do not read for a third party, or for someone who is unaware that I am reading about them - unless they have given permission (because I sense that it would not be ethical)

But.
Lately I have wondered about that. I wonder if my "ethics" are not too strict.
I realise that I often disapoint my querents when I tell them I wont do such reading.
I also realise that often, I nearly break this rule myself while reading (even if at first I am not really aware of it)

Examples :

- A friend asked me a reading about her lover because she wanted to know what he really felt for her and if he intented to leave his previous life to come and live with her. I explained that I couln't base a reading on him, while she was the querent and not him.
I suggested a reading based on how she could deal with the relationship, from her point of view, instead. She accepted but she was disapointed, because it was not what she was interested about in the first place.

- Not long ago I offered to read for a friend, who is head of a local office for a big company.
He first asked a question about his daughter and her studies, which I declined.
He then asked about a new deputy director that was to arrive the next week. His worries : he himself is the director, and this new person was going to be his deputy director, thought my friend did not get to choose him (the company chose him - my friend had wished for someone else for this position).
I eplained I couln't do it like that, and I offered an alternative question : "how can you make the most of this new partnership with this new deputy-director / how can you make it work, how can you deal with the situation in the best manner for all involved"
My friend accepted this.
I did a SWOT spread, but I realised mid-reading that everything I was saying was related to "what is this new man like". I tried to veer my reading back to the question "how can you make the most of it", but the reading itself, everything I came up with, kept being mainly a description of the strenghts and weaknesses of this new deputy director.
At the end I realised I had answered my friend first question, not the question I had myself come up with.


So.
I realise that very often, what we really want to know is what other people in our life do or think, and how that can affect us.
There can be a limit to the interest querents have in readings that are always stricktly centered about them, their feelings, their hidden fears etc.
It is difficult for me to decline all my querents questions, untill they eventually accept whatever question I suggest - at that point they are already disapointed with the whole process.
And in any case, in most readings, if a third person is involved in the situation being explored, then at least part of the reading will be about this third person, what they feel, what they want, etc.

I would like to know what is your take on this issue of "reading about a person who is not aware we are reading about them" ?

Should I be more relaxed about it ? Should I accept when a friend wants the reading to be about their lover, their boss, their kids ? Or, am I right to fear that there is something "not quite right" about reading for a third person ?
How do you do it ?
Have you even ever considered such an ethic issue, or have you never given it a thought ?

Thank you for your help !
 

Barleywine

For me, it's not so much a question of ethics as effectiveness. I think trying to unveil the thoughts or feelings of an unaware third party is basically "mind-reading," not card reading. I don't think of it as "spying" because I'm not sure it yields much of use. However, it might cause the querent to react in an entirely inappropriate manner, which is where ethics could be called into question. I would rather see the question asked "What is X likely to do?" because that has an empirical, "wait-and-see" aspect to it and isn't just idle guesswork.
 

Zephyros

This question has popped up before, although I can't find any threads right now. Still, my take is that there's no problem with it, and I do it indiscriminately, even on things that don't concern me. Were Tarot as effective as hidden camera I wouldn't, but it isn't so I don't consider it snooping at all.
 

Onaorkal

My thoughts are similar to Barleywine's on this question.
People are allowed to ask advice about people to anyone they want.
But with tarot, people could regard it as ''absolute truth'' and unchangeable and that could have unncessary bad repercussions on the people involved. I mean, if the person wants to know if this employee is unreliable or if their significant other is cheating, even if the cards say so (or rather even if the reader interprets the reading as such), it can't be 100% trusted. I mean, I would not feel comfortable knowing the querent could take drastic measures regarding their issue based on a tarot reading, especially if it can very negatively change some people's lives.
I know I wouldn't be happy at all if a potential employer didn't hire me solely based on the results of a tarot reading. And I would be plainly angry if someone close to me decided to break our bond based on a tarot reading saying I was not a good friend or person.
If the reading is simply making a person realize some things they already knew deep inside, that's another matter. But then the reading should be done with the querent at the core of the issue anyway. Like you said you preferred to work.

I haven't read for others a lot yet, but I know many people wish to know what's going on inside other people's mind. I still think it's not the best way to go.
 

DownUnderNZer

For me it would depend on the situation really.

I think if it was about a "missing person" or the welfare of someone that has "disappeared" from sight and cannot be contacted then why not?

But if it was about someone's boss having an affair or how did my neighbor die down the road. HELL NO!

1) Go and ask your boss so you can get it directly from the horse's mouth or hire a PI or Detective.
2) If you want to know how your neighbor died - put an apple core, raw onion, lock of the neighbor's hair, and one dead mouse under your pillow on any significant moon. Might not work the first few times, but if you keep at it with luck it might be revealed eventually in a dream or nightmare. Which ever comes first!

In all seriousness, it is not really anyone's business knowing anyone else's business, if it does not directly involve you. Third persons that is. Except for those that are "missing" maybe.


DND :)
 

Carojulie

For me, it's not so much a question of ethics as effectiveness. I think trying to unveil the thoughts or feelings of an unaware third party is basically "mind-reading," not card reading. I don't think of it as "spying" because I'm not sure it yields much of use. However, it might cause the querent to react in an entirely inappropriate manner, which is where ethics could be called into question. I would rather see the question asked "What is X likely to do?" because that has an empirical, "wait-and-see" aspect to it and isn't just idle guesswork.

I agree with you on the efectiveness, and actually this is another thing that I always tell in advance : Cards speak in symbols, and that is not a precise language ; plus I am not and experienced reader, and even if I were, all readers can be wrong. So, I always make sure no one is going to take any drastic measure after a reading ; be the reading about themselves or not. I also tell them that I do not do predictive readings, because I do not think the future is set in stone, there fore it cannot be predicted - I just can tell wich ways some energies are going but that can change (and I can be wrong in my interpretation !)

I mean, I would not feel comfortable knowing the querent could take drastic measures regarding their issue based on a tarot reading, especially if it can very negatively change some people's lives.

I totaly understand, and I was saying earlier, this is something I make sure to avoid. I would never tell someone "do not hire X" based on the cards. In any case I refrain from giving my opinion or advice, I like to leave it opened so the querent can think of all the aspects of a situation. Similarly, I would never say "your spouse is cheating". First, I would not be able to be that precise in my interpretation. Second, even if I knew it for a fact (outside of tarot), that would be the spouse secret to tell, not mine, so I would never say that.

For me it would depend on the situation really.

I think if it was about a "missing person" or the welfare of someone that has "disappeared" from sight and cannot be contacted then why not?

But if it was about someone's boss having an affair or how did my neighbor die down the road. HELL NO

OMG, if someone approached me to know if their boss had an affair, I would tell them to mind their own business ! In tarot reading or real life the same !

When I was mentioning reading about a third party, I meant reading about somobody that is important to the querent, and how this could affect the querent (like when my friend asked about his daughter's studies because he is worried and wants to help her)
Often querents wonder about people in their life, their feelings for example, and how that can affect the querent. But, asking about your boss or neighbour is nosing, iddle curiosity that has not place in an honest reading ! I do not like gossiping, it can hurt people.

This question has popped up before, although I can't find any threads right now. Still, my take is that there's no problem with it, and I do it indiscriminately, even on things that don't concern me. Were Tarot as effective as hidden camera I wouldn't, but it isn't so I don't consider it snooping at all.

Thank you for sharing that Zephyros. I have searched for previous threads, but I did not really know what keyword to use. Thanks for your opinion !

All in all I see that you all are not as "strict" as I used to be about this question. And, issues you have about this questions are issues I also have (effectiveness, drastic reaction of the reader....) and that I address when my reading is about the querent themselves, so I would address them the same if the question was about someone else.

I am trying to think of how I could make my ethics less stric on that question of reading for a third person ; in order to make my readings more comfortable and in order to avoid having to decline questions from querents all the time. I am still not sure how to deal with this question.
But in any case, ethics is something that is always on my mind.

Thank you for your views ! I would love if you keep sharing !
 

Annabelle

For me, it's not so much a question of ethics as effectiveness.

Well said! I agree.

I don't mind reading on issues/questions involving third parties, but I don't like reading on questions that aren't going to produce a useful answer.

In other words, if a friend asks me for a reading about her son, and says something like "Is my son still feeling anxious and overwhelmed at school?" I'd rather turn her question around to something such as "What can I do to help my son feel more confident in school?".

Now, on the subject of love -- i.e. "Is X flirting with me or just being nice?" etc. -- since I only read casually/for free, I just say no to those questions. But my reason isn't due to ethics; it's due to finding such questions tedious :).
 

Sulis

For me, it's not so much a question of ethics as effectiveness. I think trying to unveil the thoughts or feelings of an unaware third party is basically "mind-reading," not card reading. I don't think of it as "spying" because I'm not sure it yields much of use. However, it might cause the querent to react in an entirely inappropriate manner, which is where ethics could be called into question. I would rather see the question asked "What is X likely to do?" because that has an empirical, "wait-and-see" aspect to it and isn't just idle guesswork.

Well said! I agree.

I don't mind reading on issues/questions involving third parties, but I don't like reading on questions that aren't going to produce a useful answer.

In other words, if a friend asks me for a reading about her son, and says something like "Is my son still feeling anxious and overwhelmed at school?" I'd rather turn her question around to something such as "What can I do to help my son feel more confident in school?".

Now, on the subject of love -- i.e. "Is X flirting with me or just being nice?" etc. -- since I only read casually/for free, I just say no to those questions. But my reason isn't due to ethics; it's due to finding such questions tedious .

This is how I think of it.. Ethics aside, I just don't think cards or card readers are very good at reading the mind of someone who isn't there, often someone who the querant hasn't seen or had any contact with in ages (if they're reading about an ex).
Asking what someone feels about you or what someone thinks about you also assumes that they do think about you or do have feelings for you and if it's an ex, as it often is with this type of thing, they may have moved on and not be thinking or feeling about you at all.

I think that we can only change or control ourselves so it's best to keep ourselves as the focus of the reading. You can still see other people in the reading but the focus needs to be on the querant and that has nothing to do with ethics.
 

Zephyros

This is how I think of it.. Ethics aside, I just don't think cards or card readers are very good at reading the mind of someone who isn't there, often someone who the querant hasn't seen or had any contact with in ages (if they're reading about an ex).
Asking what someone feels about you or what someone thinks about you also assumes that they do think about you or do have feelings for you and if it's an ex, as it often is with this type of thing, they may have moved on and not be thinking or feeling about you at all.

I agree with this. However, I kind of see it like looking at the window vs. going outside to test the weather. Looking out the window doesn't tell you everything, and it won't tell you how cold it is. It'll mainly tell you if it's clear or rainy, but depending on the level of information you want it's sometimes more than enough.

Let's say a friend of mine is going out on a date. It isn't my business how the date goes, but keeping the limitations of Tarot in mind I might ask and receive some sort of an answer. It may not be the most accurate one or the best one, but for passing curiosity it's fine. Putting hidden cameras or listening devices, that would be going too far and I would put the line at that, but the kind of predictive Tarot I haven't found that effective even in ideal situations, so I don't sweat it.
 

prudence

I sometimes think that ethics comes into tarot related discussions because so many people believe Tarot can do such magical things, like literally peer into someone's home or mind, or even into their deepest most subconscious motivations. Perhaps if you're reading for yourself, it can dig deep and reveal to you some things you were unaware of about yourself. It will not do this for a third party you've never met. What it can do in a third party reading, is give you some ideas you can speculate about, but that's the extent of it. Speculation.

Speculating about whatever does seem to be a waste of time (and money if applicable) for the querent and the reader, why not spend the time on something a bit more helpful and slightly more concrete than mere speculation?

I would find it off putting if I went to a reader and asked about my school age child, and how he was feeling about school now, say after having some very bad times at school, to then have the reader tell me no, that's too intrusive or similar. As parents, we all know how our questions to our kids about school go; how was school? It was good/okay. They're not exactly forthcoming with information, I see nothing wrong with at least trying to see how school was actually going for my child. Would the tarot related info be something I'd bring up in a meeting with teachers and or administration? No, of course not. But it could help me to help my kid through a rough patch, along with all of the other tools in my shed.

Asking about your boss's possible affair? That would be an easy one to turn down, though I expect that querent would simply find a reader who would be willing to answer such a question. Same as the types of readers who don't mind reading on the same question multiple times, sometimes for months/years, especially when they're being paid for the readings. If your tarot business helps pay your bills, it could be difficult to turn people away.