trouble with deck/spirit

CrystalSeas

then i will get a reading that doesnt make sense, no matter how long i let the cards sit, no matter how long i think about what they could mean..

for example, the reading i posted in the other thread was almost a month ago, it was the first joke reading i got, and i still cant imagine what it could mean, other than nothing. the other joke readings, or whatever they are, are the same way. i dont think its me failing to connect with the cards, i think its my deck messing with me. i could be wrong of course, but thats what i think.

People have posted on AT about readings that took years to manifest. To write it off as a "joke" just because you don't understand the reading after a few weeks, is perhaps short-sighted.

Keep up your tarot journal, and from time to time go back a year or so to see if the meaning is any clearer. Part of your problem may simply be that you are not yet familiar enough with all the nuances of card meanings.

The book that comes with the deck is a great start, but it is not the full set of meanings. You will need to develop your own understanding of the full breadth of meaning and you will discover that what you *thought* the card meant six months ago was not necessarily a complete understanding.
 

Ruby Jewel

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i dont think its me failing to connect with the cards, i think its my deck messing with me. i could be wrong of course, but thats what i think.

i believe the cards are more than a tool. i believe they are a spirit, and there is power in that, the same as there is power in me reading them, and the messages that come through them. its okay if you have a different opinion, thats just mine ^^

I believe this deserves a separate consideration as it is perhaps the real gist of what this issue is about: and that is imbuing a deck of cards with an autonomous energy of its own. It is, indeed, a legitimate assumption that an energy exists between two poles....but where that energy resides is of utmost importance lest we hypnotize ourselves into the primitive danger of what Levy Bruhl called "participation mystique." It is what I would term in it's most basic meaning as "voodoo." When one embues an object, such as a doll or a deck of cards, with an autonomous power and then we toy with that power, an erroneous assumption aligns itself with our own psyche and we begin to believe in it. Our literature is, of course, filled with such plots of the imagination. The significant point of departure from logic is in assuming the energy resides in a fixed location such as the reader or the cards, which might fall under the category of "hubris".... a fatal error.....as all the perennial philosophies have not failed to point out. One might find a modern analogy in my imbuing my telephone receiver with a magic power of its own.
 

ncharge

I would say that it IS possible to create a kind of thought form that enlivens the deck if you envision it and constantly feed it with your attention and belief.
 

ghosthymn

sorry ruby jewel, i did miss some of your message OTL

[Ruby Jewel;4970100]I am not familiar with the deck you use. I use the Rider Waite as the generic deck which speaks the message of the tarot loud and clear to me. The clones, if true clones, should speak the same language. If they are not clones, then different cards should render the same message....not a different message, so, for me, the deck is just a tool...that becomes imbued with the energy of whomever uses them. I see that energy, not as 'power'.... but as constellations of archetypal energy in the unconscious that is transmitted. I presume that is what is meant by the term "power."[/QUOTE]

im not sure what you mean by clones, is it that they represent the same thing as the rider-waite? (as opposed to decks with modern/different meanings/representations?)

some of my cards speak very clearly to me, but not all of them. im hoping its just because im not familiar with the images/meanings on the card, and that theyll come to me in time!

i agree somewhat about the energy of the reader being transferred into the deck, but i believe it is your deck responding to you as a person would, anyone youre around for some period of time takes in who you are, and i believe decks do as well..

as for power, i mostly brought that up in response to grizabellas reply, (By giving the deck a personality and mind of its own, you give away your own power.) i think she meant that by seeing the deck as a person i was giving up my intuition, or ability to read, which i dont really agree with. i believe the power is shared by the deck and the reader, as well as the messages contained in the cards.

i hope i understood your reply correctly, and thank you (as well as grizabella) for the advice ^^

People have posted on AT about readings that took years to manifest. To write it off as a "joke" just because you don't understand the reading after a few weeks, is perhaps short-sighted.

thats a good point, and one i hadnt really thought about, i guess because most of my readings do make sense, so the ones that dont feel almost like an attack. but of course, i havent learned even all the basics of tarot, let alone the different nuances that come with time and practice.

(and i see there are more replies now so ill go ahead and read them then reply ^^)
 

Ruby Jewel

I would say that it IS possible to create a kind of thought form that enlivens the deck if you envision it and constantly feed it with your attention and belief.

Oh indeed! It is quite possible, nor is there anything new in it. I am simply pointing out the dangers involved in "toying" with archetypal energies of your unconscious.....which has nothing to do with an inert deck of cards..

Let me say something here that may help clarify. The images on the tarot are already constellated psychic energies in your unconscious...these images are called archetypes, and you will resonate with them at an unconscious level. But the images on the cards are not the energy...the energy is in your personal psyche...I am saying, you must own the energy...and not project it onto the cards.....or anyone or anything else in the world for that matter.
 

Ruby Jewel

Hi Ghosthymn...when I speak of clones, I am describing decks that copy the imagery of the Rider Waite.....not necessarily exactly, but using the Waite images as templates, as many decks out there do. I think we are not too far apart on our understanding....at this point.
 

Maru

A lot of great commentary here.

I think it's OK to talk to cards as you would spirit. I talk to this "soul" as you would say, but there's a fine line between syncing with this energy and over-realizing it's potential to communicate. This is the case with any sort of reading of inanimate objects...

Just be sure you're not picking up other sources if you are mixing your medium sessions with your tools... for example if you walk out of the room and continue conversation (I'm a medium btw) with your cards, make sure you know WHAT you are talking to. There are definitely things sitting around outside waiting to poke their head in and interrupt our connections with a more truer source. In my experience, those purer sources don't offer up knowledge like candy... on the other hand, a maliscious spirit will do anything to string you along, even if it's just to mess with your brain. (Which I don't think is the case with your reading)

Just make sure if you are practicing protection between sessions. Personally I separate my tools I use for mediumship from my divination tools. I use them very differently. The universe "perks up" through the cards, but the cards themselves are separate, they are just a medium... What's that saying "Don't shoot the messenger?" They have no connection to intuition, they are just objects we use to "divine"... we are the ones doing the reading, they're just tools to help us attune that ability... whether you are a person who believes that comes from energy or from subconscious. It's all the same in that sense.

For divinating, especially as a medium, you have to be very careful about the emotional connection you form with these tools. The wrong intentions (or wrong focus) can do strange things to your readings, just like asking the wrong query... in theory, if you're hoping for objective results, you should try your best to keep your inner focus "clear" so to speak. Clear your mind and disconnect yourself emotionally from the process and allow the cards to speak for themselves. That is, keep your readings very organized, your queries consistent, your focus practical.... so don't jump all over the place with a zoo of different queries. Try to keep them in some consistent form so that you can trace problem cards very practically.
 

page of ghosts

If you haven't tried it already it could be an idea to cleanse your deck?

I am the laziest tarot reader so I haven't tried it myself, nor have I had the issue you describe, but I think it could be worth a shot. Typical things is re-ordering your deck (as in put the cards in order again to "reset" it), smoke cleansing, charge under the moon etc. Google or a book probably has more ideas if you need them.
 

yannie

I use tarot specifically as a tool for communicating with spirits, & I can tell you I take none of my readings seriously. What matters is what I think, what I feel, the right way to go about living my life at the end of the day, not what a stack of cards seem to be saying.

When you notice it's turning into a joke, you're reading too much & need to step away from your cards.
 

Farzon

I use tarot specifically as a tool for communicating with spirits, & I can tell you I take none of my readings seriously. What matters is what I think, what I feel, the right way to go about living my life at the end of the day, not what a stack of cards seem to be saying.

When you notice it's turning into a joke, you're reading too much & need to step away from your cards.
Very much this!

Also, accounting decks with a personality of their own takes the responsibility of a good reading away from yourself, which to me sounds like an easy way to skip practice. I know I sound harsh on this.

Let me take a step further and challenge your belief: how do you think should a soul or spirit enter a deck of cards that's made somewhere in a facility by machines? Isn't it much more logical that a spirit should communicate with you because it is connected to you, and not to the deck?

I thought about the source of readings, the influence of spirits etc myself. After some time I recognized that it just led me to do nonsensical rituals out of fear. And fear is never a good motivation in my experience. If you ask me, we can choose what we believe in. Maybe try to believe in something not as fearful as the living tarot deck. It leaves you without any power and responsibility of your own.