Any ideas for a study group?

feynrir

I've hoped for something like this to exist for some time! Not sure how knowledgable of a contributor I would be, but I am all for participating as adherent to the PKT as possible.

In any case, simply having a study group that is so "reigned in" from all the extraneous meaning attached to the RWS over the ages would be worth propelling. It would offer a nice sense of cohesion for the participants to be so concerned with Waite's original writings and intentions (and perhaps even with history on how some of Colman-Smith's images took form from the artist's liberties--I know a number of minors share compositional similarities to some of her earlier work).

Comprehensive, yet studious rather than speculative. :) It's a dream, but it could happen!
 

rwcarter

How about a symbolism study of Pixie's art with or without correlation to the book? What Waite intended for the cards to mean more than a century ago is a great study, especially since it will help a large majority of people to better understand a book that many find impenetrable. But Pixie could arguably be the first tarot artist to unconsciously put symbols into her deck that inform the interpretation of the cards in ways that the companion book can't.

Since the 6 Cups was mentioned earlier, how does the presence of a retreating guard inform the interpretation of that card?

Rodney
 

TheRiderDeck

How about a symbolism study of Pixie's art with or without correlation to the book? What Waite intended for the cards to mean more than a century ago is a great study, especially since it will help a large majority of people to better understand a book that many find impenetrable. But Pixie could arguably be the first tarot artist to unconsciously put symbols into her deck that inform the interpretation of the cards in ways that the companion book can't.

Since the 6 Cups was mentioned earlier, how does the presence of a retreating guard inform the interpretation of that card?

Rodney

See that has all been done before for the Minor Arcana just go to You Tube and there is a whole series done by Abheda Tarot called Symbols of the Waite-Smith Tarot. There she breaks down every symbol of each card in that series. It is excellent but it have been done before.
 

Richard

How about a symbolism study of Pixie's art with or without correlation to the book? What Waite intended for the cards to mean more than a century ago is a great study, especially since it will help a large majority of people to better understand a book that many find impenetrable. But Pixie could arguably be the first tarot artist to unconsciously put symbols into her deck that inform the interpretation of the cards in ways that the companion book can't.

Since the 6 Cups was mentioned earlier, how does the presence of a retreating guard inform the interpretation of that card?

Rodney

Since we have no way of knowing what she was thinking when she designed the cards, especially if the symbols were put there "unconsciously," this would merely encourage wild speculation which, while possibly valid in the context of a reading, does not really enlighten us as to Pixie's conscious or unconscious intentions.

Here's an example. I seem to recall this suggestion from an earlier thread: "When a relationship goes sour, just walk away." This cannot be deduced logically from the Six of Cups. It is something that popped into the mind of a reader when the card came up. It therefore cannot really enlighten us about the significance of what the "guard" is doing. It pains me to think what might have prompted other readers to bring up the subject of pedophilia.
 

Yelell

By the way, I am not the only one who questions the value of free association in Tarot reading. See this thread, which includes posts by the noted Tarot scholar Teheuti (Mary Greer).

Yes, I've seen instances where interpretation turns into intuition, which turns into association, then speculation, quickly snowballing into making s**t up as you go along. Who am I to say where the line should be, (I've been guilty of it) but I do want to follow the known facts and text when possible. An indepth kabbalah and astrology based analysis is beyond me at this point though.

I like going through the Waite book straightforwardly without too much going off course. But there might be room for some brief secondary interpretive insights regarding imagery on cards or brief questions about the book's/cards' contents. Focused on the book but open to more than just summarizing the book.

Makes sense to me -- seems there must be something in between "nothing but the book" and "the land of make believe"

See that has all been done before for the Minor Arcana just go to You Tube and there is a whole series done by Abheda Tarot called Symbols of the Waite-Smith Tarot. There she breaks down every symbol of each card in that series. It is excellent but it have been done before.

Lol, the deck's been around 100 years -- everything has likely been done before by someone, somewhere :cool3:
 

TheRiderDeck

Since we have no way of knowing what she was thinking when she designed the cards, especially if the symbols were put there "unconsciously," this would merely encourage wild speculation which, while possibly valid in the context of a reading, does not really enlighten us as to Pixie's conscious or unconscious intentions.

Here's an example. I seem to recall this suggestion from an earlier thread: "When a relationship goes sour, just walk away." This cannot be deduced logically from the Six of Cups. It is something that popped into the mind of a reader when the card came up. It therefore cannot really enlighten us about the significance of what the "guard" is doing. It pains me to think what might have prompted other readers to bring up the subject of pedophilia.

Exactly. Plus, on page 113 of Secrets of the Waite-Smith Tarot by Marcus Katz and Tali Goodwin, it is stated that Pamela as a Symbolist was working within the framework that all symbols are multivalent (having many meanings). They stated that "She did not treat the symbol as an image with a fixed meaning (unlike Waite for the Majors in the deck), but rather as something with its own existence which individuals are free to interpret as they chose." So what did those symbols in the Minors mean to Pamela there is no way of knowing but she understood that they would be different for everyone. As for the Majors and Waite that part of the deck sure everything was put there for a reason and DOES have fixed meanings.
 

Teheuti

Exactly. Plus, on page 113 of Secrets of the Waite-Smith Tarot by Marcus Katz and Tali Goodwin, it is stated that Pamela as a Symbolist was working within the framework that all symbols are multivalent (having many meanings). They stated that "She did not treat the symbol as an image with a fixed meaning (unlike Waite for the Majors in the deck), but rather as something with its own existence which individuals are free to interpret as they chose."
I don't agree with Marcus & Tali's characterization.

If you read Waite's other books (in which he talks about many of the symbols that appear on the cards) you'll see that he talks about symbols in multivalent ways. They could be specific within certain contexts, while still being multivalent in their larger meanings.

We have no idea how PCS saw symbols except in her article on how to view a painting - which describes a very personal way of viewing art.

It was Carl Jung who I believed coined the phrase and certainly made popular the idea of symbols being "multivalent" - probably around 1910 when his book Symbols of Transformation came out.
 

Teheuti

Many years ago in another forum (long ago and far away) a group of us went through Waite's chapter on "Tarot and the Secret Tradition" paragraph-by-paragraph and often line-by-line. Having studied his work deeply, I suggest reading this first because otherwise you'll totally miss a great many of Waite's meanings and references in the Trumps section. It really is the key to his view of the cards and essential for learning his vocabulary and core intentions for the Greater Trumps. We found the best way to approach this chapter was, as we began each paragraph, for everyone to try paraphrasing what he was saying in their own words. Understanding and misunderstandings were cleared up quickly in this way.

Suggestion - when in doubt about a meaning for one of Waite's words, look it up in a 19th century British dictionary (many are available online). He was extremely precise in his choice of words, quite a few of which have changed meaning or emphasis over the years. In fact, his writing style is reminiscent of Samuel Taylor Coleridge, a great literary stylist of the early 19th century.

Most members of the group ended up with a heightened appreciation of his ideas and even of his writing (few people are as precise in their writing as he was - once you "get it").
 

rwcarter

See that has all been done before for the Minor Arcana just go to You Tube and there is a whole series done by Abheda Tarot called Symbols of the Waite-Smith Tarot. There she breaks down every symbol of each card in that series. It is excellent but it have been done before.
Never heard of that person or that study. Just because someone else did it doesn't mean that it couldn't be done again by different people.

Since we have no way of knowing what she was thinking when she designed the cards, especially if the symbols were put there "unconsciously," this would merely encourage wild speculation which, while possibly valid in the context of a reading, does not really enlighten us as to Pixie's conscious or unconscious intentions.
The thread was asking for ideas for a study group. If you don't like the idea, you don't have to participate in that study group if it happens. But you shouldn't put down anyone else's ideas. All ideas should be accepted. And if multiple study groups grow out of this discussion, great. Then those who wish to participate in different study groups can.
 

Richard

The thread was asking for ideas for a study group. If you don't like the idea, you don't have to participate in that study group if it happens. But you shouldn't put down anyone else's ideas. All ideas should be accepted.......

"All ideas should be accepted." Ummmmm....OK. Sorry, I didn't know there were rules regarding the discussion of ideas for a study group. I won't be posting any more in this thread.