Jupiter in 8th house, IRS & money owed Q?

Haley

Hi again everyone,

I have a senior family member who is owed thousands being held by the IRS in an escrow account from her late husband's business. Every time she requests the money she is given the runaround by the IRS. I told her to hire a lawyer specializing in IRS law. She's 82 with little money so she balks at this unless it could be done pro bono. I said I'd loan her the money to retain a lawyer which seems to be the most sensible thing to do here.

My relative is a Gemini with a good chart, IMHO. With Jupiter in the 8th house I think this could indicate she stands a good chance of winning her law suits especially those pertaining to IRS issues. But my knowledge of astrology is only very basic so I'd like to know, what do you think of this situation?

Her full DOB is :

6/13/ 1932

8:26 PM

Boston MA. USA

Thanks in advance.
 

Minderwiz

Her chart

There are several factors which need to be considered. The first is the condition of Jupiter, is it afflicted in any way (that is aspects that reduce it's power to signify successful outcomes. Obviously being in the eighth would also normally weaken it but you are quite right to assume that for an eighth house matter, such as partner's money and inheritance this is a positive placement.

Jupiter's position in the eighth, depends on what house system is being use. Quadrant house systems certainly put it there, but as I am using whole sign houses (for the course I'm doing) I actually get it in the ninth.

Whichever system of houses is used Jupiter is on the Ascendant and so signifies her, in body, mind and spirit. Jupiter is in Leo, in a night chart, so it is in its own triplicity and it's own decan which gives it essential dignity. The ninth gives it good accidental dignity and it sextiles the Sect Lord, the Moon. Indeed the only drawback is a weak opposition from Saturn which is the most unhelpful planet in a night chart.

The eight house is ruled by the Moon, being Cancer and she is in the eleventh house, with a mutual reception to the benefic of sect, which is Venus in Cancer in the eighth, the two planets being joined by a square. Venus is retrograde but mutual receptions are always beneficial to some extent and a square from the Moon is not the same as a square from Mars, or Saturn.

So whichever way you look at her chart, things don't look bad in relation to her inheritance, though Venus Retrograde promises delays or some quirkiness in the outcome.

But and it's an important but, Remember that other factors need to be considered. From her point of view, the main one will be the conditions when the case comes to court. As there's not even a case filed at the moment, we don't know and cannot know when that will be. So the astrological conditions at the time of the case are a big unknown. Once a date is known then those conditions can be evaluated.

Secondly court cases involve another party. So to be fully sure we'd need to evaluate the IRS in terms of such a contest. That can be done through horaries, although there may be a 'natal chart' somewhere or other for the IRS.

So on the basis of her chart, I'd say that the legal option should be pursued, there's no obvious signs of her losing and the chart is favourable to inheritances.

Just one note of caution. Her Ascendant is late Sagittarius, if she were born 4 minutes later, her Lot of Fortune would change sign, and be ruled by Mercury rather than the Sun. If it were 13 minutes later she would have Scorpio rising.

Mercury is actually well placed very close to the Descendant in its own sign. The Sun is 1 degree behind, so even in a quadrant house system, many Astrologers would treat these two as angular, so if anything, it might strengthen the chart. But, unless recording was poor in 1932, I doubt that her Ascendant will change signs.
 

Haley

There are several factors which need to be considered. The first is the condition of Jupiter, is it afflicted in any way (that is aspects that reduce it's power to signify successful outcomes. Obviously being in the eighth would also normally weaken it but you are quite right to assume that for an eighth house matter, such as partner's money and inheritance this is a positive placement.

Jupiter's position in the eighth, depends on what house system is being use. Quadrant house systems certainly put it there, but as I am using whole sign houses (for the course I'm doing) I actually get it in the ninth.

Whichever system of houses is used Jupiter is on the Ascendant and so signifies her, in body, mind and spirit. Jupiter is in Leo, in a night chart, so it is in its own triplicity and it's own decan which gives it essential dignity. The ninth gives it good accidental dignity and it sextiles the Sect Lord, the Moon. Indeed the only drawback is a weak opposition from Saturn which is the most unhelpful planet in a night chart.

The eight house is ruled by the Moon, being Cancer and she is in the eleventh house, with a mutual reception to the benefic of sect, which is Venus in Cancer in the eighth, the two planets being joined by a square. Venus is retrograde but mutual receptions are always beneficial to some extent and a square from the Moon is not the same as a square from Mars, or Saturn.

So whichever way you look at her chart, things don't look bad in relation to her inheritance, though Venus Retrograde promises delays or some quirkiness in the outcome.

But and it's an important but, Remember that other factors need to be considered. From her point of view, the main one will be the conditions when the case comes to court. As there's not even a case filed at the moment, we don't know and cannot know when that will be. So the astrological conditions at the time of the case are a big unknown. Once a date is known then those conditions can be evaluated.

Secondly court cases involve another party. So to be fully sure we'd need to evaluate the IRS in terms of such a contest. That can be done through horaries, although there may be a 'natal chart' somewhere or other for the IRS.

So on the basis of her chart, I'd say that the legal option should be pursued, there's no obvious signs of her losing and the chart is favourable to inheritances.

Just one note of caution. Her Ascendant is late Sagittarius, if she were born 4 minutes later, her Lot of Fortune would change sign, and be ruled by Mercury rather than the Sun. If it were 13 minutes later she would have Scorpio rising.

Mercury is actually well placed very close to the Descendant in its own sign. The Sun is 1 degree behind, so even in a quadrant house system, many Astrologers would treat these two as angular, so if anything, it might strengthen the chart. But, unless recording was poor in 1932, I doubt that her Ascendant will change signs.

Thanks so much Minderwiz. I used atrotheme's software to plot her chart and it put Jupiter in the 8th house (unopposed) which I thought was good. I was concerned it might be opposed by Saturn in her second house and what would you make of that? I see caution in financial matters for her and she is cautious but I wondered how it might influence 8th house issues if at all.

Thanks again for shedding light on this issue. I talked her into calling and retaining an attourney and she called yesterday. Based on her successes with inheritances in the past, I'm willing to invest in lawyer's fees because I think she'll do well. (She's always been lucky with other peoples money.) At least I hope so. I'll want my investment back.

What time of year this year would be most auspicious for her to pursue this if I may ask? The attourney that was recommended to her by a friend, is going to be unavailable until August of this year. The man in question had done work successfully for the friend of hers who then recommened him. He has a female assistant who is available but if she should wait, please let me know. It makes sense to choose the most auspicious time for something as serious as a law suit as well as choosing the right person to represent her.
 

Minderwiz

Thanks so much Minderwiz. I used atrotheme's software to plot her chart and it put Jupiter in the 8th house (unopposed) which I thought was good. I was concerned it might be opposed by Saturn in her second house and what would you make of that? I see caution in financial matters for her and she is cautious but I wondered how it might influence 8th house issues if at all.

In a quadrant system, Jupiter will be in the eighth. By Whole Signs it's in the ninth, with Saturn in the third. The opposition is by sign rather than degree but there will be some effect, Saturn still rules her natal second house, which will be Capricorn. with a Sagittarius Ascendant, and therefore first house. So the Jupiter/Saturn opposition does carry some weight for her own financial matters. There will also be some influence over eighth house matters as Saturn trines the Moon, which rules the eighth. However it's a trine rather than a square of opposition so I don't see it as particularly damaging here. Indeed by sign, there's something of a reception in that the Moon is in Saturn's Exaltation of Libra.

Hayley said:
What time of year this year would be most auspicious for her to pursue this if I may ask? The attourney that was recommended to her by a friend, is going to be unavailable until August of this year. The man in question had done work successfully for the friend of hers who then recommened him. He has a female assistant who is available but if she should wait, please let me know. It makes sense to choose the most auspicious time for something as serious as a law suit as well as choosing the right person to represent her.

I'll take a look at that. Off hand (and it is very much first thoughts) I'd say before Jupiter moves out of Leo. Jupiter has dignity by Triplicity there and it is her Ascendant ruler and was in Leo in her natal chart. Moreover it's a natural significator of the Law. It shifts into Virgo in the early days of August, which is its detriment being opposite its second sign of Pisces.

Saturn is currently retrograde and remains so until 1 August (Universal Time). As Saturn signifies her income, finances, you want those finances coming in, not going out. That really leaves you the first week in August, after Saturn has stationed (or on the Station) and before Jupiter moves into Virgo. That means the recommended attorney should be available as well.

As with all elections, there's possible downsides, don't do it with Jupiter in the last degree. i.e. before Thursday 8th August. Even so this is leaving things a little late.

If you're going to sacrifice anything, astrologically, accept Saturn Retrograde, as there's an argument that it's her money the IRS are holding and being Rx means that the money should flow backwards, from them to her.

If his assistant is good, and he exercises a general supervisory role there is a good argument for starting now. If you really want the recommended attorney then you have a small window at the beginning of August but Jupiter will be a little weaker.

If you can, start the action/see the attorney or his assistant, with Leo rising and Jupiter as close to the Ascendant as you can get. If you go for the assistant, then around 14 June you should find her natal degree of Jupiter rising. If she's still in Baltimore, I can give you the time.

Edited to add:

In the second half of June, there's a few dates that you could think about. Starting on the 12th June, transiting Jupiter transits natal Jupiter's degree. Venus is already in Leo and on conjunction of transiting Jupiter and Venus in Leo, near to your natal degree.

20 June has a triple conjunction of Jupiter, Venus and Moon (that rules your eighth house of inheritances. Venus will transit natal Jupiter on the 26th June. Then on 1 July the conjunction of transiting Venus and Jupiter occurs, just three degrees beyond your natal Jupiter.

Again it's better if you can initiate that action, either when Leo is rising or Leo is the tenth house.

As you can see, there's no single clear cut date but there are several promising ones. That gives you some leeway for manoeuvre,
 

Haley

In a quadrant system, Jupiter will be in the eighth. By Whole Signs it's in the ninth, with Saturn in the third. The opposition is by sign rather than degree but there will be some effect, Saturn still rules her natal second house, which will be Capricorn. with a Sagittarius Ascendant, and therefore first house. So the Jupiter/Saturn opposition does carry some weight for her own financial matters. There will also be some influence over eighth house matters as Saturn trines the Moon, which rules the eighth. However it's a trine rather than a square of opposition so I don't see it as particularly damaging here. Indeed by sign, there's something of a reception in that the Moon is in Saturn's Exaltation of Libra.



I'll take a look at that. Off hand (and it is very much first thoughts) I'd say before Jupiter moves out of Leo. Jupiter has dignity by Triplicity there and it is her Ascendant ruler and was in Leo in her natal chart. Moreover it's a natural significator of the Law. It shifts into Virgo in the early days of August, which is its detriment being opposite its second sign of Pisces.

Saturn is currently retrograde and remains so until 1 August (Universal Time). As Saturn signifies her income, finances, you want those finances coming in, not going out. That really leaves you the first week in August, after Saturn has stationed (or on the Station) and before Jupiter moves into Virgo. That means the recommended attorney should be available as well.

As with all elections, there's possible downsides, don't do it with Jupiter in the last degree. i.e. before Thursday 8th August. Even so this is leaving things a little late.

If you're going to sacrifice anything, astrologically, accept Saturn Retrograde, as there's an argument that it's her money the IRS are holding and being Rx means that the money should flow backwards, from them to her.

If his assistant is good, and he exercises a general supervisory role there is a good argument for starting now. If you really want the recommended attorney then you have a small window at the beginning of August but Jupiter will be a little weaker.

If you can, start the action/see the attorney or his assistant, with Leo rising and Jupiter as close to the Ascendant as you can get. If you go for the assistant, then around 14 June you should find her natal degree of Jupiter rising. If she's still in Baltimore, I can give you the time.

Edited to add:

In the second half of June, there's a few dates that you could think about. Starting on the 12th June, transiting Jupiter transits natal Jupiter's degree. Venus is already in Leo and on conjunction of transiting Jupiter and Venus in Leo, near to your natal degree.

20 June has a triple conjunction of Jupiter, Venus and Moon (that rules your eighth house of inheritances. Venus will transit natal Jupiter on the 26th June. Then on 1 July the conjunction of transiting Venus and Jupiter occurs, just three degrees beyond your natal Jupiter.

Again it's better if you can initiate that action, either when Leo is rising or Leo is the tenth house.

As you can see, there's no single clear cut date but there are several promising ones. That gives you some leeway for manoeuvre,

She's not in Baltimore, Minderwiz. She's in Boston. What you said about small inconveniences due to her natal Venus being retrograde, you've already been proved right. The fact that she called and he's out until August is probably the 1st of these if I'm interpreting what you say correctly. His assistant is a woman ( is this positive for her? I don't know). My chart indicates troubles in life coming from women, and from experience, I must say this is true. So I wonder if this could be a negative for me since I may lend her the money?

My own chart places Mars in my second house of Gemini. I use the horary astrology and houses with definite borders. I'll tell her about this and we'll see what we can get going before June 12th. I knew Jupiter was leaving Leo. But Saturn being retrograde could be an issue.

Thanks so much for all the insight. It's much appreciated.
 

Minderwiz

Sorry about Baltimore (in more senses than this one) I had another query with someone born there and it was on my mind when I wrote that reply. Luckily the chart is correctly based in Boston LOL.

If you have that issue shown in your chart, then there may well be a risk, even in this case, with two women involved (Grandmother and Legal Assistant). I don't have your chart, so I can't go any further than that. If you would rather wait till August, then that will work but remember to keep Jupiter in Leo.

If you've got concerns about Saturn Retrograde, then wait till it stations direct, as you still have time before Jupiter leaves Leo.
 

Haley

Sorry about Baltimore (in more senses than this one) I had another query with someone born there and it was on my mind when I wrote that reply. Luckily the chart is correctly based in Boston LOL.

If you have that issue shown in your chart, then there may well be a risk, even in this case, with two women involved (Grandmother and Legal Assistant). I don't have your chart, so I can't go any further than that. If you would rather wait till August, then that will work but remember to keep Jupiter in Leo.

If you've got concerns about Saturn Retrograde, then wait till it stations direct, as you still have time before Jupiter leaves Leo.

Thanks Minderwiz. I am concerned about Saturn retrograde for her.