Marseilles Swords

Lleminawc

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Thanks for the historical info, jmd.

One other characteristic of the Page/Valet is that his jacket seems to be buttoned up the wrong way - at least in my Conver reproduction - which lends support to the lateral inversion theory. (Assuming that these conventions have persisted through the centuries.)
 

Minervasaltar

euripides said:
I'm going to suggest an alternative: the Pomegranate. The pomegranate has long, shiny leaves very like those portrayed. The flower is long and red, like the one on the four and six.

Thank you for this eyeopener! Suddenly I see pomegranates everywhere, although I especially see them in the coins and cups (I'm not too sure about the swords).
 

kwaw

Lleminawc said:
Not sure which if either of the Marseille Swords threads this would be appropriate for, but anyway: the Page of Swords came up in a reading the other day and I noticed that he holds the sword in his left hand. I saw this as a sign of awkwardness and inexperience, as the Marseille Pages tend to look somewhat callow and unsure of themselves, but then found that the Knight also uses his left hand.

Now, wouldn't left-handed people have been regarded in medieval and early modern times as gauche, if not sinister (hence the etymology of these words)? The only other left-handers I found are the Knight of Batons and, interestingly, the Devil.


"Therefore the fourth name is El whose numeration is Hesed, which is Clemence or goodness, and signifieth grace, mercy, piety, magnificence, the scepter and right hand,

AceofBatons.jpg


"and hath his influx by the order of the Dominations, which the Hebrews call Hasmalim, and so through the sphere of Iupiter [Jupiter] fashioning the Images of bodyes [bodies], bestowing clemency and pacifying justice on all; his particular intelligence is Zadkiell the ruler of Abraham:


"The fifth name is Elohim Gibor, that is, the mighty God, punishing the sins of the wicked; and his numeration is called Geburach [Geburah], which is to say, power, gravity, fortitude, security, judgement, punishing by slaughter and war: and it is applyed [applied] to the Tribunall of God, The girdle, the sword and left hand of God;

AceofSwords.jpg


"it is also called Pachad, which is fear, and hath his influence throw [through] the order of powers which the Hebrews call Seraphim, and from thence through the sphere of Mars, to whom belongs fortitude, war, affliction, it draweth forth the Elements; and his particular intelligence is Camael, the ruler of Samson;
Chap X Book III of Agrippa’s Occult Philosophy.

"Moreover, God has endowed man with a divine character, through the number Phahad — the left-hand sword of God, through which man be*comes a curse to all creatures. And then again he has another character in the number of God, Hesed — the right and scepter of God, through which he finds favor in the sight of God and all his creatures.84 An evil conscience is the judge of men, but a good conscience is his happiness. Therefore, through the other divine numbers, and through the angels and stars a man becomes impressed with signs and characters of conscience, which causes him to be happy at one time and unhappy at another.

Sixth and seventh books of Moses

"Therefore this Character is imprinted on man from the divine Idea which the Cabalists of the Hebrew call Pahad [PHD] and the left hand, or sword, of God: furthermore man hath not only a seal by which he is feared, but also by the which he is beloved, the Idea of which in the divine numerations is called Hesed [ChSD] which signifieth Clemency, and the right hand and Scepter of God."
Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa: Of Occult Philosophy, Book III (Chapter XL).

So right hand/sceptre/chesed/water;
and left hand/sword/geburah/fire:

Coins = the holy shekel of the sanctuary = vau/tifareth/air the seed of the Sun/Son bridegroom; cups the vessel of the bride final heh/malkuth/lower waters (earth).

Kwaw
 

Barleywine

Origin of Sword Imagery

Personally, I consider the suggestion that the depiction of the curved swords as representing movement, rather than sword, a fascinating addition to the range that has so far been suggested. I do not, however, consider it historically likely.

In both the thread linked to, and in (amongst others - but this one more clearly) 10 Swords - Contrasting the Dodal and Conver, the suggestion is that the Marseille-type decks have, on the whole, lost the image distinction between the blade tip and the hilt-and-pommel. In both a number of very early decks, but also in pre-tarot Mamluk decks, and in later-than-Marseille Besançon decks, the tip/hilt distinction is retained.

I got interested in why Marseille-style decks show stylized, curved, double-bladed "swords" or "scimitars." I found this old thread, but I also went looking elsewhere on-line to search for an historical basis. There is opinion on at least one of the "query" sites (like Ask.com) that there never has been a double-bladed sword, except in ornamental wall hangings. However, I encountered pictures of a medieval French weapon called a glaive-guisarme (a kind of polearm) that had a leaf-type blade at one end and a "hook" blade at the other end, that was handled like a staff. I'm now curious whether this was the model. Picture attached.

ETA: I did find Japanese double-bladed swords used by ninjas, but that's outside the scope of my investigation.
 

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