ShekinahMoon
thinbuddha said:
Dark? Naw, I've never thought the deck was dark. At best I used to think it was complicated. Deep yes but never dark. Now Lovecraft's deck.......that's dark...and odd.
Aleister Crowley (Thoth deck)
Dark? Naw, I've never thought the deck was dark. At best I used to think it was complicated. Deep yes but never dark. Now Lovecraft's deck.......that's dark...and odd.
ShekinahMoon
Nocturnal Lure said:
ExactlyShekinahMoon
Helvetica said:
Sexual? How so?
Sulis
ShekinahMoon said:
Take a look at the Lust (11) card
http://www.bluecatsden.com/t11lust.htmland The Devil (15) http://www.bluecatsden.com/t15devil.html
Love Sulis xx
Nocturnal Lure
Sexual...
Stricktly speaking a lot tarot is sexual... filled with duallity and pairs of male and female dynamics.
Wands and Swords versus Cups and Discs (phallic versus circulair). Kings queens, emperors and empress', etc. Besides that the devil should both historicaly and conservatively speaking eminate lust and passion as a certain type of influence.
If you go and make some work of it, you can dig up a lot of sexual referances in the tarot, any tarot, not just crowleys.
And all this isn't that weird, sexual energy is one of the driving forces the human race, so it is notrhing but logical that the tarot resonates this.
Stricktly speaking a lot tarot is sexual... filled with duallity and pairs of male and female dynamics.
Wands and Swords versus Cups and Discs (phallic versus circulair). Kings queens, emperors and empress', etc. Besides that the devil should both historicaly and conservatively speaking eminate lust and passion as a certain type of influence.
If you go and make some work of it, you can dig up a lot of sexual referances in the tarot, any tarot, not just crowleys.
And all this isn't that weird, sexual energy is one of the driving forces the human race, so it is notrhing but logical that the tarot resonates this.
sansa
Lillie said:
I know that there is a massive difference. Please don't say I AM confused ask.
satanists are atheists??? well that is one iv never heard before....As far as Iv seen no satanist has called themselves an atheist as well. Or are you just lumping them in because of YOUR beliefs.
I must say interesting responses. And I wish you guys would stop telling me to look at the other threads on this because like I said I just want some convo on it. And no I don't own this deck yet.
Astra_Vates
sansa said:
...I wouldn't let others get to you so easily, this seemed angry to me... oh, and in my opinion, most of the people I know who seem to... 'walk their own path' really come off as what I would say as not satanist. I think Crowley just walked his own path.
thinbuddha
sansa-
I'm totally with you- I would think that to be a satanist, you would have to at least acknowlege that there IS a satan (and what is satan, if not the opposition to god anyway?) But then again, I'm not a satanist, so I'm just basing this on common sense (informed by common knowlege.... and as we all know, common sense and common knowlege can fail miserably when not backed up by fact).
So Sansa, since you wanted conversation, I'll turn your original question on you. Would it bother you if Crowley was a satanist? Has the belief that he was a satanist kept you from getting this deck?
Assuming that he was a full blown, virgin-goat sacraficing, blood drinking satan worshiper (does this even exist?) what do you think might happen to those of us who used his cards on a regular basis?
-tb
I'm totally with you- I would think that to be a satanist, you would have to at least acknowlege that there IS a satan (and what is satan, if not the opposition to god anyway?) But then again, I'm not a satanist, so I'm just basing this on common sense (informed by common knowlege.... and as we all know, common sense and common knowlege can fail miserably when not backed up by fact).
So Sansa, since you wanted conversation, I'll turn your original question on you. Would it bother you if Crowley was a satanist? Has the belief that he was a satanist kept you from getting this deck?
Assuming that he was a full blown, virgin-goat sacraficing, blood drinking satan worshiper (does this even exist?) what do you think might happen to those of us who used his cards on a regular basis?
-tb
Lillie
sansa said:
If you know that there is a difference, and still think Crowley was a satanist, then you are very confused.
Or maybe you just don't know very much about him and are making incorrect assumptions.
Or maybe you just have a thing about satanists.
Who knows?
You ask a question on this forum, one that has been asked in many different ways, many times before.
And has been answered, many times.
Yet you cannot be bothered to look at, or read, those answers, even when you qre directed to them.
So, let's all have the conversation again, for your benefit, specifically.
Just so you can disagree with everything everyone says.
Crowley was not a Satanist, as I percieve satanists. Anyone who thinks he is, even though they say they know the massive difference between an occultist and a satanist, is clearly confused.
Nocturnal Lure
sansa said:
No... actual Satanism, as in the registered religion... places no entity above themselves, so no deities either. They have some faith in magic and ritual, but they don't acknowledge the existance of a higher power.
There are off course some small groups worshipping dark deities, but when asked personally I find them silly, no-one would deliberately choose for damnation and eternal torture, so many just want to shock and have little real interest in theoligy of any kind. Besides that, these groups rarely call themselves Satanists.
One of the definitons of satanism:
"Satanism is the utter rejection of the spiritual way of theistic religions, and the honest admittence [sic] that we are just animals who evolve as any other complex system."
source: http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis4.htm
Go and google...
Personally I am not to fond of Satanism. Being a neo Pagan (somewhere between Gnosticism, Wicca and Asatru, with a touch of Taoïsm), we are often identified with the Hollywood-type satanist sacrificing virgins in bloody pentagrams. When people understand what Satanism truly is, perhaps some of the prejudices we share with 'em will fade into history.
