High Priestess Vs The Empress - Sex Appeal?

Helvetica said:

However, this does bring me back to the High Priestess. She is all immanence - she lives in the now. She can easily give herself tonight, and not tomorrow - and that does not make her a slut. Simply a woman who belongs entirely to herself, and gives herself freely, as she desires - for a night, or for life. Her love is all the more valuable for that reason.

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Thank goodness! Someone said what I was thinking! When it comes to sexuality, I think the most defining aspect is the HP's independence. She can be maiden, mother, OR crone--she can be the dark side. IMO, the one thing that most distinguishes her from the Empress is her personal sense of independence.

No man owns her. She is not necessarily a "physical" virgin. IIRC, in the ancient world, 'virgin' often meant a woman who was independent of men. As in the priestesses in the temple were supported by the Goddess' tithes and by the state. No man supported them, no man owned them--but that did not mean they were untouched.

The Empress, OTOH, even if she is not supported by a man, is much more about male-female interaction and interconnectedness.

i dont know why most here on the topic see the Priestess as this modest, not curvy woman.

i had a friend who was a celebrity stylist and worked for Beyonce and helped pick out a dress for her and she asked me how she will look in that dress and i drew,the High Priestess.

sure enough in the video she wore the long dress picked for her she was covered but of still curvy and sexy.

LaRazia said:

isure enough in the video she wore the long dress picked for her she was covered but of still curvy and sexy.

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I don't think any of this old thread implies that the HPS cannot be sexy or even curvy. In fact, it's said again and again in this thread that she can very sexy. It's just more of a mysterious sexy.

When we think of "rubenesque," a shape popularized by the artist Ruben, we usually think of women who are not only plumb and curvy, but wearing very little. Not "mysterious." So we might not immediately think of the HPS as standing for them as compared to the Empress. But this hardly means that any woman getting the HPS can't be curvaceous. That would be a little silly, like limiting the queen of swords to blond women or saying that none of the male cards can stand for women. If we accept that there can be a woman who gets the Emperor for her card, then why not a curvy lady getting the HPS? So, I really don't think anyone needs to say that the HPS can come up for a curvy woman. HPS is more about type of sexiness (mysterious) than physical shape.

i know, and i agree with you Thirteen.

but you will see that in this topic, and i have read very carefully ppl mostly use the words virgin like, innocent, modest and covered up, and than they say,that as opposed to that the empress is ‘all woman ‘
which, like u say is silly, because in real life in have seen the Priestess representvwomen who are more covered up but still sexy, andvbeing covered up didnt as you say take away from their femininity, whereas in this,thread ppl were trying to portray the Priestess as some type of nun lol. i just think ppl are a bit one sided regarding this card and take it face value rather than trying to see a deeper meaning, even if we are only talking about physical appearances.

fyi the dress Beyonce wore that prompted her to come up as the High Priestess in my reading was the yellow green dress in the Me Myself and I video. i would love for ppl to check the video out just to see that dress, maybe it will help us all shed light on the High Priestess look.

Oh, and regarding the covered up or skimpy.... you know, i am an urban.model, which is kinda a street bame for women with curves, and even though i am good at what i do i tend to get in issues with ppl from time to time because i dont want to be naked or even half naked, id rather wear gowns or tight dresses and you can still see the curves evrn if they are covered up but yes, its true, ppl seem to think that curvy means u should show skin. i recently am coming up as the high priestess when i ask about my modeling gigs and looks. LOL.

Thirteen said:

I don't think any of this old thread implies that the HPS cannot be sexy or even curvy. In fact, it's said again and again in this thread that she can very sexy. It's just more of a mysterious sexy.

When we think of "rubenesque," a shape popularized by the artist Ruben, we usually think of women who are not only plumb and curvy, but wearing very little. Not "mysterious." So we might not immediately think of the HPS as standing for them as compared to the Empress. But this hardly means that any woman getting the HPS can't be curvaceous. That would be a little silly, like limiting the queen of swords to blond women or saying that none of the male cards can stand for women. If we accept that there can be a woman who gets the Emperor for her card, then why not a curvy lady getting the HPS? So, I really don't think anyone needs to say that the HPS can come up for a curvy woman. HPS is more about type of sexiness (mysterious) than physical shape.

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firemaiden said:

In very early versions of the Empress and the High Priestess, there isn't much to distinguish the two figures, (I'm looking at the famous "Rosenwald sheet") : the card numbered II is a crowned woman holding a closed book on her lap, and card labled III is a crowned woman holding an orb.

Neither have much sex appeal.

But I ask you this, which is sexier, a book, or an orb?

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Attached : The Popess and the Empress from the uncut Rosenwald Sheet (from Kaplan's encyclopedia)

LaRazia said:

but you will see that in this topic, and i have read very carefully ppl mostly use the words virgin like, innocent, modest and covered up, and than they say,that as opposed to that the empress is ‘all woman ‘
which, like u say is silly, because in real life in have seen the Priestess representvwomen who are more covered up but still sexy, andvbeing covered up didnt as you say take away from their femininity, whereas in this,thread ppl were trying to portray the Priestess as some type of nun lol.

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But you're mistaking the *general* for the specific. When we discuss card meaning in the abstract, we discuss the *general* meaning of it. And in that instance, YES, the card stands for "nun-ish" and less aggressively sexual. Even Waite talks of her as a "spiritual" bride (in Catholicism nuns "marry" Christ), not of earthly sexuality.

But YOU are referring to a specific reading. With a real person. Who needed an idea about how a dress would look. And the HPS best suited the answer. Specific readings and what came up for them and why don't undermine or countermand general observations.

There was a reading someone did for their day and they got the 10/swords. They had acupuncture that day. The card really suited that, don't you think? But that doesn't mean that if someone here asked, generally speaking, about the meaning of the 10/Swords we'd all say "acupuncture." That was a specific answer for a specific person for a specific day. It isn't fair to cast people as narrow minded who are giving general answers to a general question by pointing out a specific card meaning in a specific reading. The two are not the same.

Thirteen said:

The HPS often takes on the role of Maiden or Crone. So she can certainly be the sexual young woman, mysterious and very powerful as well as fresh and intense. HOWEVER she can also be regarded as a chaste Maiden, a nun. Or a knowing old crone. These make her sexual appeal ambiguous.

If we accept her as being represented by the Moon, then we have the dark moon as well as other phases. This makes her moody, unpredictable, her sexuality as likely to drive someone to lunacy as poetry. Thus, she may have very powerful sexuality, but her lover might well find this attraction a very dangerous one. It's all too easy to lose ones way there in the dark.

The Empress, on the other hand, is all about creativity and abundance. There is a great deal of generosity in her. We can see her as one who gives of herself, who is creative and selfless in her sexuality, and who has enough to keep on giving. She will, likely, be constant and supportive.

If we accept her as being represented by Venus, then her sexuality is pretty well set as she is a represenative of love. She might be a bit too motherly at times, perhaps even possessive of her lover, but she will keep him/her satisfied.

She is more likely to be the woman with the Rubanesque figure, curvy, lush, all woman and willing to show it. This, in contrast with the HPS, who, depending on the phase of the moon, might hide her femininity behind a veil--which, to be fair, could be more alluring to some, but there you go.

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I am new to tarot, and I found this comment very helpful!! Thank you!! I always have this feeling that the HPS is somehow sexual, but most of the materials that I have encountered say that HPS is usually the total opposite of sexuality. I am glad that I have encountered this explanation!

obsidian_queen said:

Quick question for you guys; how would you interpret the High Priestess in terms of physical attractiveness, and what separates her from the Empress in beauty? Both these cards speak of the essence of femininity, but I was just a little stumped as to what sets them apart. Is the High Priestess the femme fatale or woman of mystery? But then I guess that would make her attractive in a sense that is not as tangible as physical appearance...who's got more sex appeal? Her or the Empress?

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Imo, and really we all see attractive, beauty and sexuality very differently so it is all subjective...

I see the HP as the sexually aware but very self possessed woman. She might like sex, but she uses it to manipulate and control the men in her life.
I see her as the independent feminist woman that burned their bras in the 60s demanding to be treated like a man, but in the process loses touch with their feminine side. They have no problem with the one night stand or a fwb arraignment because they don't get emotionally involved easily.
Of course not every woman is the nurturing mom type.. I also see the HP as the driven career woman who is honest enough to admit to herself and any S/O that she doesn't want a family, doesn't want to be a mom.
This woman can be very attractive... Her sexual independence can translate into using sex to climb the corporate ladder, or simply to alleviate her loneliness with a night at the bar flirting with all the guys, getting free drinks and quite possibly taking someone home for a bit of a roll, not really caring if her chosen guy is married or not... After all, if he doesn't care about his relationships, why should she..


Then there's the Empress.. She's the high school sweetheart that every guy wants. She is the one that will stay up cramming with her guy so that he will pass his test with better grades than he would have gotten. She's the girl that loves kids and wants to be a mom.
She's also that woman who upon discovering her sexuality revels in it. She enjoys sex and while she may use it as a weapon, it's more likely that she will prefer abstinence to random sex with strangers because she tends to prefer an emotional connection.
She can't do FWB very well, because she will catch feelings and want more. She is a generous lover and a big hearted woman. She may have affairs but she does because she is involved emotionally.

She may be an independent woman, capable of living without a man, but she prefers to have someone she to love and lavish her time and attention on. And if a man isn't available, you can bet she has pets, or may even have other family members living with her; Parents that need care, grandchildren, adult children, foster kids, teen moms, etc. She genuinely has a need to love and care for someone.. Sometimes anyone.. Which can be bad..

I think either women can have any look, although I think in general the HP you'd find more at home in a power suit or a tight navel baring evening gown (think Cher). While the Empress would be more girl next door or Whitney Houston..
Both types of woman can be attractive.. Just in different ways.