Tarot, number four, and some random thoughts on the Kabala

Sorry, JMD

I posted in haste and failed to say the chemical atom types were relevant to the bardic system of relating number to sign -- a distinct topic from the Sefirot -- and that that system (on which tarot was later based) must have originated before the destruction of the last civilization, since Neolithic and Bronze Age man knew not the periodic table. But that this knowledge was built into the system later embodied in tarot I can demonstrate exhaustively. Anyone interested in details of the system can peruse my various posts, in which I explain various aspects of it (those I have ferreted out so far).

To clarify my abbreviation (which I really should have spelled out rather than abbreviate), 'WCS' refers to the deck designed and created by Waite and Colman-Smith.

I suppose that my own rather limited knowledge of the periodic table of modern chemistry is possibly partly hindering my own reading of venicebard's posts. Added to this rather limited background chemical knowledge are some of the statements that are made that appear, at least at first and second reading, rather far-fetched (this of course does not make them incorrect).

The implication in the previous post is that there was a pre-neolithic civilisation that was somehow somewhat similar to us, that had developed knowledge of chemistry to at least 19th century standard, and that also developed what later became Ogham, with the two having a correlation and incorporated into Tarot's imagery, of which we have lost two cards.

It is the summary in that last paragraph I wrote that, if I have in any manner represented venicebard's view correctly, needs to be, for at least my own acceptance, presented with a little more clarity and with broader background reasons or explanations.

I too at times write in what some undoubtedly consider more riddle-form (though without intending it to be this way, except in the games Forum).

Ogham, of course, also relates to this thread given its association with the number four, as the Book of Ballymote, written circa late 14th century, mentions four pillars upon which the Ogham letters are inscribed. The foundation of the pillars are, according to that book, B, H, M, and A.

Why, however, there is a further correlation assigned to the letters with the periodic table I fail to see. Further, even if such a correlation can be made to work (and I have every confidence that venicebard has found such a way), it is another huge leap, unless there appears to be intrinsic merit, to assume an essential relationship.

Motion for the defense – and thank you, jmd!

Points well taken, M. Moderator. It was not two cards, however, that were missing but two tree letters from the 20-letter ogham, of four pillars as you said. And thank you profusely for reminding me of the four pillars, as it explains, I think, why the table in trump I has three legs: it is ogam-consaine, in which the pillar of the vowels (the one standing on A) has been withdrawn (by taboo?). Ancient Libyan had about fifteen letters at one point also, I think, but then added vowels. The Meroitic is like Egyptian yet reverts to having the vowels (which had been ‘disguised’ as consonants in Egyptian), this possibly under indirect Hellenistic influence.

Meanwhile, I shall follow advice I have been given and start a thread or two with concise portions of what I am trying to express, and see where it leads. In at least one, I shall address the periodic table at the outset, just for you (and anyone else interested).

Happy sailing (dalet, Hebrew 4, pictures a jib in Phoenician).