78

hermit-IX

is there anything special about the number 78.
why are there 78 cards?
 

Zephyros

Although occultists over the years have come up with ways of ordering the cards in esoteric methods, for example on the Tree of Life, Tarot decks didn't always have 78 cards, and they went through many permutations over the years. Some decks had additional Trumps while others had different ones. Although one can, indeed, find occult justification for the 78-card structure, historically the cards just seem to have kind of settled into what we know of as Tarot today.
 

Richard

......Although one can, indeed, find occult justification for the 78-card structure, historically the cards just seem to have kind of settled into what we know of as Tarot today.
However, when a structure (such as tarot) settles into a specific pattern (such as 78 cards) which has remained constant for centuries, it is natural to inquire as to why this should be so. Perhaps it is because games such as jeu de tarot adapted to the 78 card deck (for example, trumps 1 and 21 have special properties), so manufacturers had to continue to produce such decks. Nonetheless, I think there still remain questions, and the influence of some sort of collective unconscious on the evolution of tarot cannot be ruled out, in my opinion.

As a mathematician, I am intrigued by the fact (coincidence?) that 78 is the sum of the numbers of the twelve zodiac signs. It seems to accord well with certain occult views of tarot. It is fashionable to reject such speculation, but I am reading an intriguing novel (Lud-in-the Mist), in which the inhabitants (Luddites) are so matter-of-fact that they regard anything which inspires wonder and awe as so obscene that it should not even be mentioned in polite conversation. (I think they are due for a surprise! :D)
 

Zephyros

Oh I'm not rejecting those ideas, as you know I'm actually a big fan of them. But I take a more "holistic" view. If you drop a bag of marbles on the floor they will order themselves according to certain patterns. A Gaussian curve is a good example of how complex systems are self-organizational.

I think Tarot cards may have been naturally inclined to fall into certain patterns, but I have to be careful in saying that. From what I said it is easy to make the connection to "Secret Chiefs" or other supernatural causes which isn't my meaning.
 

Richard

Oh I'm not rejecting those ideas, as you know I'm actually a big fan of them. But I take a more "holistic" view. If you drop a bag of marbles on the floor they will order themselves according to certain patterns. A Gaussian curve is a good example of how complex systems are self-organizational.
That's certainly true.

I think Tarot cards may have been naturally inclined to fall into certain patterns, but I have to be careful in saying that. From what I said it is easy to make the connection to "Secret Chiefs" or other supernatural causes which isn't my meaning.
I wish Blavatsky had never come up with that nonsense. However, it came in handy for Crowley to discredit Mathers because Mathers had "lost contact" with the Chiefs. Such BS gives legitimate esotericism a bad image.
 

Zephyros

Well, Crowley himself got his own ordering from "other" Secret Chiefs, so it all depends who's chiefs you side with. That whole gang was playing holier than thou (literally!). One could see it as different philosophical streams each pulling it their way until what emerged was a compromise, of sorts.

I say "of sorts" because there is, indeed, a dominant school of Tarot in vogue today, due mainly to its most popular exemplars, the RWS and Thoth. So there was no real compromise, one faction simply won, probably due to marketing.
 

Aeon418

78 is the Mystic Number of the Path of Beth. The Path of the Magus.
 

Richard

Which other "placeholder name" would you prefer to denote higher consciousness?
Well, it it's a metaphor, I suppose I can live with it.