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Symbolism in the RWS 6 of Cups

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aoife View Post
I've done a cursory search and can find nothing like this. Are you able to find the thread?

But yes, it is sad that childhood recollections for some people include such nightmare scenarios.

Here's another wonderful thread about the 6 of Cups - http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread...threadid=18421
yes, more than sad - a tragedy. The 'sadness' suggested here though, may not be wholy due to that ... its sad that this would colour the reading. Its sad that this damage colours peoples lives and the interpretation people give on things.

10 years ago I could have given a little girl a bunch of flowers, or taken photos of the 3 little boys I had the pleasure of looking after , playing in the river.

I wouldnt do things like that now. I just hope that such negative things dont start attaching to meanings of tarot cards, all over the place.

If we gave a RW deck to kids in Manus Island detention ... I wonder what they would tell us about 'image association' ?

One thing I did find interesting ... on opening this thread on page 1 and it coincidentally jumped out at me.

In post # 2 mind you :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
Mary K Greer in Tarot Reversals also points out that something about the card doesn't seem quite right - The tower, the guard, the disparity in size of the figures - she suggests that on rare occasions it represents 'childhood abuse, denied or fogotten, like happy family photographs that hide a dysfuctional truth'.

The first time I read that I took a longer look at the card and I can see what she means. I've never treated the card the same again
{good old 'Mindy' what's he doing in RW ? )

BUT note what he says ; Mary K Greer in Tarot Reversals

REVERSALS. It seems to fit as the opposite of what most see in this card (well, I hope it IS still most) - the reverse of the ' 6 of cups' energy, The Qlippoth or 'evil demon' of Tiphareth in the world of cups ... but I am not the type to look at a Sephiroth and immediately go ' Qlippoth ! ' Unless there is a really good indicating reason to see that.

If I understand this correctly , Mary was talking about reversals.

Do we normally assume a card meaning in a discussion is the reverse, if the card isnt shown that way ?

And I have to ask ... if a card is being looked at upright, or by itself and not in a reading (where it might be reversed or have horribly aspects ) .... why go against the general understanding and .....

oh .... ... okay, I get it .... its not part of the Kabbalah, or the associations, or LIber -T ... its what one gets from the image .... <sigh>
Top   #81
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Many of us see each card as potentially referring to a whole range of meanings from the most negative and problematic to the most positive (despite clear tendencies toward either pole).

I've had several clients who feel very uneasy with the 6 of Cups. Combined with generally negative cards in a problematic situation it has come up as feeling trapped, oppressed or as an abuse of power. It reminded one woman of her family photo album where everyone looked happy and normal while the underlying truth was not that at all. The combination of cards and their application to the situation is far more important than any fixed, static meaning for a card. This is one of the riches of Tarot.

Most of the time I find this a very positive card, but I'm always aware of its potential for danger.
Top   #82
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Yep, combined with generally negative cards .

But I do see your other side of it. Like Christmas for example ... it can make me shudder, after working in an emergency hospital ward for 10 Christmases Car accidents, people stabbed at the table while carving the turkey, people ... ( ah , I better stop there)

But when I read for someone ... and turn up the Christmas card ... is the reading for them ... or me ? ( the only way I can see through is, as you say "combined with generally negative cards ".

And if there were not 'generally positive cards ' (like the 6 of cups and the 'Christmas card' ) then we couldnt have 'generally negative cards' to modify the 'good ' one's.

My issue is a negative take on the card alone and not in combination.
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Apologies if this has already been brought up, I skipped the first 3 or so pages of this thread after the first. Look at all of the sixes in the RWS, the idea of 'imbalance' is pretty obvious in the 6 of Wands, 6 of Swords and 6 of Pents. If anything I would say it is the least apparent in the 6 of Cups, at least to me. I disagree with the majority of the posters here, though, that I don't see it as a negative or ominous imbalance. The sixes are the result of the difficulties of the fives, they are the resolution of the problem posed in the 5s (whether it be the tactical escape of the 6 of Swords or the outright victory of the 6 of Wands). In the 5 of Cups we see a figure that has turned their back to the feelings and emotions that are available to them in the upright cups. They have chosen to ignore them. In the 6 of Cups we see the childlike feelings of joy that can result when we choose to embrace the cups ignored in the 5. For me, the imbalance comes from the fact that this joy has not yet been fixed into our life yet--it is a new feeling and we are still recovering from the vulnerable state of the 4 and 5 of cups. In fact, if we look at the following cards (the 7 and 8 of Cups), we can see the result of this vulnerability (7) and the realization that these feelings must be fixed in our life to be lasting (8). The sixes are actually pretty similar to the Aces if you think about it like this.

Of course, in a reading one must consider the implication of the 6 of Cups beyond just its position in the progression of the Minor Arcana, but I think it's a big mistake to dissect a card individually without looking at its role in the context of this progression.
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But that depends how much the image has to do with the card, and also where it is discussed. You yourself railed against the appropriation of the historical forum by non-academic methods, in essence, intuiting history. Isn't that the case here? After all, I can say the card means a wedding, but I would have no way of backing that up. On the other hand, Waite, the man who's deck we are all here to study, would have thought "Sun in Scorpio at Tiphareth in Briah," and would have instructed Smith accordingly. The Lord of Pleasure, in his short-lived, rather sterile desire for satisfaction can be seen as something disturbing, of course, and the card is a bit creepy even in the Thoth, but there is nothing inherently disturbing in it, aside from a bit of self-indulgence. Emotion that wells up (Sun/Sun) and is then curtailed having reached fulfillment (Scorpio/Death). The card is even quite onanistic. That's my opinion, and I can back it up should anyone want me to.

But

Yes, of course different people can see different things in it, and of course the card's divinatory meaning and image can be bent to a great many things... but I thought this forum's "raison d'etre" is what it actually is, why Waite and Smith chose to have that dwarf and an even smaller dwarf there.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
But that depends how much the image has to do with the card, and also where it is discussed. You yourself railed against the appropriation of the historical forum by non-academic methods, in essence, intuiting history. Isn't that the case here? After all, I can say the card means a wedding, but I would have no way of backing that up. On the other hand, Waite, the man who's deck we are all here to study, would have thought "Sun in Scorpio at Tiphareth in Briah," and would have instructed Smith accordingly.
I don't know if you were addressing me or someone else. If we are discussing the historical meaning(s) of the Six of Cups, then I'd stick with what is known historically. If we want to know what Waite said, then we can discuss Waite and even provide evidence from his other works or works he had read that may have influenced his concept. Regarding Pixie, we can only speculate or draw attention to other works she illustrated or circumstances she was involved in.

However, if we turn to either Waite or Pixie's comments and directions on interpreting the images for ourselves then we have a whole different discussion.
http://marygreer.wordpress.com/2008/...ing-the-cards/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlitterNova View Post
Apologies if this has already been brought up, I skipped the first 3 or so pages of this thread after the first. Look at all of the sixes in the RWS, the idea of 'imbalance' is pretty obvious in the 6 of Wands, 6 of Swords and 6 of Pents. If anything I would say it is the least apparent in the 6 of Cups, at least to me. I disagree with the majority of the posters here, though, that I don't see it as a negative or ominous imbalance. The sixes are the result of the difficulties of the fives, they are the resolution of the problem posed in the 5s (whether it be the tactical escape of the 6 of Swords or the outright victory of the 6 of Wands). In the 5 of Cups we see a figure that has turned their back to the feelings and emotions that are available to them in the upright cups. They have chosen to ignore them. In the 6 of Cups we see the childlike feelings of joy that can result when we choose to embrace the cups ignored in the 5. For me, the imbalance comes from the fact that this joy has not yet been fixed into our life yet--it is a new feeling and we are still recovering from the vulnerable state of the 4 and 5 of cups. In fact, if we look at the following cards (the 7 and 8 of Cups), we can see the result of this vulnerability (7) and the realization that these feelings must be fixed in our life to be lasting (8). The sixes are actually pretty similar to the Aces if you think about it like this.

Of course, in a reading one must consider the implication of the 6 of Cups beyond just its position in the progression of the Minor Arcana, but I think it's a big mistake to dissect a card individually without looking at its role in the context of this progression.
Hey! I like that post. good point about the 6 being a follow on or resolution of the 5

and also the 'new thing' of the 6 ... I have had the exact dynamic.

I became platonically enamoured with a young lady , I actually gave her flowers ( from my garden) and she was awkward ... I invited her to dinner and made a 3 course Moroccan mean, she was awkward ... on her birthday I gave her about 4 presents ( not real expensive) she couldnt handle it, we had a big talk, she decided to go with it ... maybe I wasnt 'trying something on' ... eventually she relaxed into and accepted it. We became great friends and treat each other really good. She is the ONLY person I would trust to house sit my cabin while I was away working ... now she has a boy and I get on great with him as well.

Flowers are fine ... its those 'sweet promises' of the momentary passion of attraction that are claimed to extend to 'forever and ever' that one needs to watch out for

(Edit; trying not be so cryptic - I mean, maybe people are going on the bitterness of silly promises made when SOME people act the way they see the image in the RW 6 C ? )
Top   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
But that depends how much the image has to do with the card, and also where it is discussed. You yourself railed against the appropriation of the historical forum by non-academic methods, in essence, intuiting history. Isn't that the case here? After all, I can say the card means a wedding, but I would have no way of backing that up. On the other hand, Waite, the man who's deck we are all here to study, would have thought "Sun in Scorpio at Tiphareth in Briah," and would have instructed Smith accordingly. The Lord of Pleasure, in his short-lived, rather sterile desire for satisfaction can be seen as something disturbing, of course, and the card is a bit creepy even in the Thoth, but there is nothing inherently disturbing in it, aside from a bit of self-indulgence. Emotion that wells up (Sun/Sun) and is then curtailed having reached fulfillment (Scorpio/Death). The card is even quite onanistic. That's my opinion, and I can back it up should anyone want me to.

But

Yes, of course different people can see different things in it, and of course the card's divinatory meaning and image can be bent to a great many things... but I thought this forum's "raison d'etre" is what it actually is, why Waite and Smith chose to have that dwarf and an even smaller dwarf there.
What ? ... they are dwarfs now ?

I see the card as essentially scorpionic but the Sun lifts it up, its central 6 position balances it, it isnt influenced by Venus (now there is the real undercurrent one ! ).

If it wasnt for the other aspects, and some other views similar to mine (in some ways) then I would think this attitude I have about the card and that energy was clouded by MY experiences and interpretations ... I have had lots of innocent pleasure like that ... and lots of hot steamy sex - which is also innocent pleasure ... and lots of Scorpionic stuff that I LOVE ! especially when the Sun comes into play and illuminates it ... but I dont get involved in the Venus/Scorpio stuff that much , it can tend to get unbalanced and stuck in a cycle.

I guess many dont make the distinction ?

I also think the distinction of a field of meaning is lacking for some ... hard to explain with tarot, much easier with beer;

1. Explain and describe what beer is.

2. What do you associated beer with ?

Now do the same exercise with a tarot card.

When I threw that into a workshop, it went off and intense ... even just the beer part; some at 1 were obviously effected by 2. others pointed it out, the others denied it , etc ... eventually it settled down and most got a distinction ... THEN we are able to move on to a card, having worked over the 'original hump' .

(But then again, I like workshops that are dynamic and intense and people clashing and papers and diagrams flying around and then it all goes up on the board and we 'slash and match'. ... although that sort of thing could be 'out of style' now ? )
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post

Flowers are fine ... its those 'sweet promises' of the momentary passion of attraction that are claimed to extend to 'forever and ever' that one needs to watch out for
This is a great way to describe this card and the feelings of something (possibly) sinister lurking beneath the surface that everyone in this thread has seemed to want to touch on /express since this thread was created. I like how you've framed it.
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Exclamation hey! Wait a minute ...


Could it be that people only give a card a 'meaning' based only on their own associations to it ... and see things only in terms of themselves, reactions and responses and DO NOT give the cards any 'existential reality' of their own ... maybe that is something I haven't been getting.?

I always assumed a card did have an existential reality.
Top   #90

 





 


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