XI. Lust - Woman on a lion

yogiman

That's an unrelated answer. Please be more to the point. What's the problem?

In order to take the myth of the -beast- serious, first of all I should believe in the new testament with it's anti-christ.
 

Zephyros

In order to take the myth of the -beast- serious, first of all I should believe in the new testament with it's anti-christ.

You don't have to. I'm not Christian, nor am I Jewish, nor do I consciously belong to any religion, yet I am aware of the symbolic syntax employed. Heck, I use that same syntax myself, and often use God in my examples. The Great Whore of Revelations could easily be substituted by Red Riding Hood, and would have the same meaning, since both are mythical ideas. You don't have to believe wolves talking to little girls to understand that a child shouldn't talk to strangers.

Psychology of Liber Al
 

ravenest

Which people? In case the target group is spoonfed and bored christians? The new testament was written in hebrew and greek. Northern-europe and a large majority of north-america should be pagan. And would it not be fair to think of the jews?

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Why SHOULD they be pagan? Because YOU think so? I would suggest what DOES happen is a stronger ingredient in the 'what should' happen formula. If Northern-europe and a large majority of north-america should be pagan' ... it would be.

So ... going back in time when Crowley and Harris worked out how these cards should appear, they should have travelled forward in time to consult your views and adjust the cards to your view point so they are more acceptable to you ?

And considering the vast impact of Christianity on 'Northern-europe and a large majority of north-america' why should Crowley have omitted that symbolism from the widely eclectic system he incorporated in the Thoth deck?
 

ravenest

In order to take the myth of the -beast- serious, first of all I should believe in the new testament with it's anti-christ.

Not at all. I do not believe in the new testament with it's anti-Christ LITERALLY ... but by analogy I see it as a symbolic representation of a dynamic detected and foreseen and feared by the 'church'.

I take the myth of the beast ( a symbolic representation of a dynamic detected ) seriously as a symbolic and analogous representation of a dynamic unfolding.

One view (church) is from the past (fear of the church collapsing and a new power taking its place) - from the past, as it is now not just portended but happening.

Another view (Thelema) is about the present ( the church has all but collapsed) in the present the church is in ruins and woman is rising in power.

No problems at all in the metaphor for me :)

Problems come about from literalism ! (As I KEEP pointing out)
 

yogiman

About the New Testament, to paraphrase Dion Fortune (sans racism) the Western Mystery Tradition is uniquely suited to those with a Western mindset.

This is no strong argument, as pagans had to convert to christianity during history, whereas they had no "middle-eastern" mindset. Besides, Dion Fortune wrote this before the cultural revolution of the 60's.
 

yogiman

I take the myth of the beast ( a symbolic representation of a dynamic detected ) seriously as a symbolic and analogous representation of a dynamic unfolding.

YOU! take ...In anyway the christians and catholics do (or did) take it literally. And even I have problems with this imagery.

And on basis of what do you take it seriously?

One view (church) is from the past (fear of the church collapsing and a new power taking its place) - from the past, as it is now not just portended but happening.

Is it no rule of life that things come and go?
 

ravenest

What on earth are you talking about ???

'pagans had to convert to christianity during history' - during history ?

'whereas they had no "middle-eastern" mindset' - what has that to do with it ?

What middle-eastern mindset ? Muslim?

What about all the Middle-eastern Christians ... who were 'middle eastern pagans' before they were Christians ? or some were Zoroastrians.


And you say closrapexa's argument isn't strong :rolleyes:
 

ravenest


What about me ?
take ...In anyway

What ????
the christians and catholics do (or did) take it literally. And even I have problems with this imagery.

There you go again, speaking for EVERYBODY ! Yogiman ... you are not everybody okay! Stop trying to back up your view point with this mythological 'everybody'.


Many Christians and Catholics and Jews and Muslims and YES even Thelemites see a symbolic and allegorical meaning in their scriptures.

So you have a problem with the imagery ... okay fine ... you seem attached to that ... whatever ... I am not trying to convince you okay? I am offering alternatives ...its up to you wether they are for you or not.

I have trouble with hello kitty tarot imagery ... so I don't use it.



I have no intention of trying to convince anybody that has such issues away from them ... especially when they are so entrenched in their position

Again, Thelema does not proselytize .

And on basis of what do you take it seriously?

On the basis of; " a symbolic and analogous representation of a dynamic unfolding".

AS I already wrote.

Do you even read posts properly or just see a few words and go off on a tangent without seeing the explanation within the same post?

Is it no rule of life that things come and go?

Yes ... that is PART of why the symbol and the perception of the dynamic is valid ... in this particular issue ...

in general issue that dynamic is demonstrated in 2 discs
 

Grigori

Moderator note

This thread seems to have run its course and is staying mired in meta-discussion. I'll close it now so we can all get back to the topic at hand :)