Mimers
Posted by jmd on 24-03-2003 23:04:
Here, the swords are clearly both curved (why!? does this provide us with some information about their provenance, given the straightness of swords in European practice?).
Posted by Diana on 25-03-2003 08:35:
Look at the two of Swords. Do you see that absolutely amazing flower in the middle? What could it mean?
Posted by ihcoyc on 27-03-2003 20:28:
Also: the 2 of Swords: how do you interpret the two objects that are there? My Ancient Italian doubles the number of swords, making the design in each corner a hilt and having two curving blades, like a scimitar, curving up to meet in the centre line, so there are four swords on the 2 of Swords and so forth. What is the origin of this particular convention? On the Visconti Gold the swords are all as straight as Wands, but have recognisable hilts on one end and points on the other.
Posted by Diana on 28-03-2003 14:56:
Now, the 2 of Swords. And their shape. I read that the rounded swords are called "symbolic swords" and that the vertical, straight ones are called "concrete swords". I do not know what is meant by this. Does anyone have an idea? So the pairs only have symbolic swords and the odd numbers have concrete and symbolic swords.
When I look at the two of Swords, I see first that very rich flower in the middle with the six leaves. It's the first thing that my eyes notice. It is a flower that has reached its maturity - it can't open anymore. So then I see the 2 Swords, remind myself that this is a 2, so there is necessarily duality involved here, and that growth is no more possible if people remain stuck in their positions and refuse to progress and listen to other people (for me Swords are the Air element). It's like saying "Ok, I've come this far. And no further". It's a stubborn kind of card. So I am reminded that I need to make an effort to see other people's points of views, and to try and see things from their point of view. It is not a very easy card. And the trouble is, at first glance, when you see that flower, you think - hey, this looks like a great card! But that's very deceptive.
Posted by HOLMES on 29-03-2003 17:29:
looking at this card i see the meeting of minds, but the actual physical occurence of when two swords laying down next to each other. they are curved swords meaning they are bending to meet the force of others and to deflect as much as possible the force directed at them.
the colour schemes of red physical root chakra and yellow eing the will charka colour on the respective swords mean it is also a meeting of physical energies and well as wills (the third center deals with our wills and how they are affected and how they affected others )
the colour black on the swords suggest mental potential. and the colour blue near the hilts suggest an aspect of peace, where the swords actually meet.
it is the wills of good men that cause peace.
the strange flower inside the meeting of the minds, is a strange flower indeed. but it too is symetrical, suggesting a harmony aspect to it and all three colours are shown in the flower will, physical and peace.
the center looks to be white pearl. perhaps it is the purity of intentions that of enabled there to be peace .
the four strawberries looking away in the respective directions remind me of food for thought.
to be peaceful one must eat peaceful foods and ingest peaceful energies.
Posted by Aerin on 30-03-2003 11:19:
The swords look like they are being pushed away from each other, they want to go in opposite directions yet something is keeping them there.
Posted by Khatruman on 31-03-2003 07:58:
Ok, let's see... the Two of Swords. The "swords" here to me seem odd, thus the confusion of which are swords and which are wands. Someone earlier said something about these being decorative swords??? Sorry, I am typing and can't go back to the post. The first thing I notice on the card is the flower in the center, with red petals, yellow petals, and blue petals behind. Leaves branch out symmetrically, eight leaves with yellow undersides and six of the eight have blue tops, but there are two that are red, the top right, and bottom left... Why is this? There are flower-like shapes below each blade, blue base, follwed by yellow, with a red center. To me, they seem to be buds, unblossomed versions of the center flower.
The swords bow out. There is that space in the center.. the air element? The symmetry of two very apparent, yet there are mirror elements to it: the red leaves of the center flower. The red/yellow of the shapes near the end blades of the swords: the retangular ones are yellow/red at the top, the oval: red/yellow and the opposite below... mirrors again?
Posted by ihcoyc on 31-03-2003 11:30:
The space between the two swords form a "vesica piscis," a fish shape and a female symbol as well. There were some threads on the shape here and here.
I have somewhat of a difficult time relating the symbol of the vesica piscis to the received interpretations of the 2 of Swords, but the same shape appears on all of the even numbered swords. In the odd numbered swords, the space inside is violated by the single fully drawn sword, which is even more disconcertingly Freudian.
Posted by skytwig on 31-03-2003 22:58:
The swords - be it two ideas, two opinions, two choices, or the polarity/synergy of ideas, opinion, choices, brains, minds creating another, greater living presence of thought.
Posted by Khatruman on 03-04-2003 07:41:
Now, to that Two of Swords. I find it interesting that in all the flowers, open or closed, the color pattern is blue for the outer petals, then yellow, then red for the inner ones. Diana has already discussed the significance of red as symbolic of life's blood, etc... so maybe an inner opening here? Another color aspect I am interested in is the pattern of colors in the decorative elements that vary from side to side. At the top you have (describing left/right) yellow/red for those bands, then red/yellow for the ovals, then blue/red for those top leaves, then red/blue for the bottom leaves, then yellow/red for the bottom ovals, then red/yellow for the bottom bands. There is a clear pattern of reversal, or perhaps mirror imagery.
Posted by skytwig on 03-04-2003 09:47:
The two of swords says a lot about verbal communication, the creation of more ideas AND the idea that discussion is a tug and push or withdrawal as ideas/thoughts are shared, resisted and accepted.
Posted by Aerin on 03-04-2003 10:09:
The 2 of swords, it is somehow trapped in the centre and forcing the swords apart, yet they are still being held together by strength of will.
Here, the swords are clearly both curved (why!? does this provide us with some information about their provenance, given the straightness of swords in European practice?).
Posted by Diana on 25-03-2003 08:35:
Look at the two of Swords. Do you see that absolutely amazing flower in the middle? What could it mean?
Posted by ihcoyc on 27-03-2003 20:28:
Also: the 2 of Swords: how do you interpret the two objects that are there? My Ancient Italian doubles the number of swords, making the design in each corner a hilt and having two curving blades, like a scimitar, curving up to meet in the centre line, so there are four swords on the 2 of Swords and so forth. What is the origin of this particular convention? On the Visconti Gold the swords are all as straight as Wands, but have recognisable hilts on one end and points on the other.
Posted by Diana on 28-03-2003 14:56:
Now, the 2 of Swords. And their shape. I read that the rounded swords are called "symbolic swords" and that the vertical, straight ones are called "concrete swords". I do not know what is meant by this. Does anyone have an idea? So the pairs only have symbolic swords and the odd numbers have concrete and symbolic swords.
When I look at the two of Swords, I see first that very rich flower in the middle with the six leaves. It's the first thing that my eyes notice. It is a flower that has reached its maturity - it can't open anymore. So then I see the 2 Swords, remind myself that this is a 2, so there is necessarily duality involved here, and that growth is no more possible if people remain stuck in their positions and refuse to progress and listen to other people (for me Swords are the Air element). It's like saying "Ok, I've come this far. And no further". It's a stubborn kind of card. So I am reminded that I need to make an effort to see other people's points of views, and to try and see things from their point of view. It is not a very easy card. And the trouble is, at first glance, when you see that flower, you think - hey, this looks like a great card! But that's very deceptive.
Posted by HOLMES on 29-03-2003 17:29:
looking at this card i see the meeting of minds, but the actual physical occurence of when two swords laying down next to each other. they are curved swords meaning they are bending to meet the force of others and to deflect as much as possible the force directed at them.
the colour schemes of red physical root chakra and yellow eing the will charka colour on the respective swords mean it is also a meeting of physical energies and well as wills (the third center deals with our wills and how they are affected and how they affected others )
the colour black on the swords suggest mental potential. and the colour blue near the hilts suggest an aspect of peace, where the swords actually meet.
it is the wills of good men that cause peace.
the strange flower inside the meeting of the minds, is a strange flower indeed. but it too is symetrical, suggesting a harmony aspect to it and all three colours are shown in the flower will, physical and peace.
the center looks to be white pearl. perhaps it is the purity of intentions that of enabled there to be peace .
the four strawberries looking away in the respective directions remind me of food for thought.
to be peaceful one must eat peaceful foods and ingest peaceful energies.
Posted by Aerin on 30-03-2003 11:19:
The swords look like they are being pushed away from each other, they want to go in opposite directions yet something is keeping them there.
Posted by Khatruman on 31-03-2003 07:58:
Ok, let's see... the Two of Swords. The "swords" here to me seem odd, thus the confusion of which are swords and which are wands. Someone earlier said something about these being decorative swords??? Sorry, I am typing and can't go back to the post. The first thing I notice on the card is the flower in the center, with red petals, yellow petals, and blue petals behind. Leaves branch out symmetrically, eight leaves with yellow undersides and six of the eight have blue tops, but there are two that are red, the top right, and bottom left... Why is this? There are flower-like shapes below each blade, blue base, follwed by yellow, with a red center. To me, they seem to be buds, unblossomed versions of the center flower.
The swords bow out. There is that space in the center.. the air element? The symmetry of two very apparent, yet there are mirror elements to it: the red leaves of the center flower. The red/yellow of the shapes near the end blades of the swords: the retangular ones are yellow/red at the top, the oval: red/yellow and the opposite below... mirrors again?
Posted by ihcoyc on 31-03-2003 11:30:
The space between the two swords form a "vesica piscis," a fish shape and a female symbol as well. There were some threads on the shape here and here.
I have somewhat of a difficult time relating the symbol of the vesica piscis to the received interpretations of the 2 of Swords, but the same shape appears on all of the even numbered swords. In the odd numbered swords, the space inside is violated by the single fully drawn sword, which is even more disconcertingly Freudian.
Posted by skytwig on 31-03-2003 22:58:
The swords - be it two ideas, two opinions, two choices, or the polarity/synergy of ideas, opinion, choices, brains, minds creating another, greater living presence of thought.
Posted by Khatruman on 03-04-2003 07:41:
Now, to that Two of Swords. I find it interesting that in all the flowers, open or closed, the color pattern is blue for the outer petals, then yellow, then red for the inner ones. Diana has already discussed the significance of red as symbolic of life's blood, etc... so maybe an inner opening here? Another color aspect I am interested in is the pattern of colors in the decorative elements that vary from side to side. At the top you have (describing left/right) yellow/red for those bands, then red/yellow for the ovals, then blue/red for those top leaves, then red/blue for the bottom leaves, then yellow/red for the bottom ovals, then red/yellow for the bottom bands. There is a clear pattern of reversal, or perhaps mirror imagery.
Posted by skytwig on 03-04-2003 09:47:
The two of swords says a lot about verbal communication, the creation of more ideas AND the idea that discussion is a tug and push or withdrawal as ideas/thoughts are shared, resisted and accepted.
Posted by Aerin on 03-04-2003 10:09:
The 2 of swords, it is somehow trapped in the centre and forcing the swords apart, yet they are still being held together by strength of will.
