ok, so now aspect patterns...

so, on to the aspects...

now, if you factor in some asteroids, i have 2 grand trines...
Air: Asc (Aqua) - Palace (Gemini-4th) - Juno/Uranus (Libra-8th)
Fire: Neptune/MC (Sag-10th) - Sun/Vesta (Aries-2nd) - Sirius (Leo-6th)

i know not all astrologers use the asteroids, i'm going by a chart i had done in late '93! lol...

Cardinal T-Square: Sun (Aries-2nd) opposing Moon (Libra-8th), both squaring Jupiter (Capricorn-11th)

Now, from what i've read, the air grand trine brings 'mental energy, the fire grand trine brings 'active' energy & the t-square indicates stress, but energy as well...also that the quality needed to develop is the sign of the missing leg (if one looks at it from a grand cross perspective)...and the house affairs of that sign as well...

so...if looking deeper...
trines are areas of ease and harmony, or are indications of "gifts", right?
and i have a "gift" of mental energy (air) w/my Asc, 4th & 8th houses, this might indicate being able to: find balance/harmony in matters of psychology and the unknown/occult (libra-8th) not just for myself, but for others (uranus), bring that balance 'home' and integrate it into my life (4th) and communicate what i've learned (Gemini) to others and the outside world, all the while looking to see how to improve things in the world (Aquarius-Asc)...am i getting it?? (lol)

that's all i can tackle for now...my brain's beginning to hurt...LOL i've been told though that the t-square is much more interesting than the trines, and that it has the potential for much greater energy...so, that's what i want to focus on...i've been trying to wrap my brain around that t-square for almost a year now...i think the stuff i'm reading (here and elsewhere) is really helping...

thanks a bunch, to all who post here...never think you aren't helping, k? b/c you've helped me tremendously so far...hope i can help out too (eventually)

much love,

~azure

azure, you've actually got a very tight air trine if you look at your Saturn, moon and north node. Neither ASC, or node is a body (planet/asteroid), so there is some debate over whether this can function as a grand trine or not... but anyways, 12th house north node, along w/Saturn (your chart ruler b/c it used to rule Aqu) just smacks of karma for me. Good karma, I'd think b/c it's a trine. In addition Neptune (12th house ruler) is conj MC - your highest goal is sort of karmic. Actually, I should stop writing about karma, I know very little about the subject.
Widen the orb and you can throw Pluto and Mars into the mix as well. Your Pluto trines to Mars/Saturn are very powerful, even if you don't consider the north node as a completion of a grand trine.

Also your water houses will sort of supply the lack of water in your chart. This is funny, I have a water singleton, but 1/2 of my planets are in the 8th/12th so... it's like maybe you don't really rely on your feeling function, but emotions are a major part of your life anyways!! That's how I feel...

Although I have used a point in interpreting an Aspect pattern before now, I think the answer should be to only use planets. The reason for this is that planets reflect the light - rather like having say, three mirrors equidistant around the circle for (a grand trine) you can angle them so the light is reflected from one to another. Points on the other hand, even important ones like the Ascendant, only receive light they do not reflect it on - hence the pattern is not established as a permanent feature.

However, when a transiting planet is conjunct that point it does symbolically complete the pattern and therefore activates it.

Azuremariposa, as you say asteroids and stars used in aspect patterns are a little bit more debatable - however as a body, an asteroid meets the 'reflective' requirements in order to pass on light. Personally I would not really make much of such a pattern, unless it was the only one of its kind and using it fitted in to a general interpretation as a reinforcing piece of information - it complements other things in the chart. Again if there is one asteroid in the pattern, a conjunction by transit of a planet will complete the pattern and activate it.

Finally, don't take grand trines as gifts and T squares or grand crosses as trouble and strife. The grand trine does indeed indicate that there is an easy flow of energy which makes certain activities come naturally. However we may find it difficult to control and direct the energy flow or even turn it off - they can represent too much of a good thing, they can also indicate the slippery slope to disaster - 'easy come' can have as a complement 'easy go' - you might find it very easy to earn money from your talents - but holding on to it may be something you never achieve.

T Squares and Grand Crosses are the drivers of our personality - what makes us get up and do things and hence achieve something in our lives. If you look at the charts of famous achievers, you'll usually find square involved in the achievement rather than trines. Success usually has to be worked for.

isthmus:

awhile back i was told that my lack of water indicates a problem expressing my emotions...and this is valid, to a point...
when i feel anything strongly (good or bad) i get very choked up, i cry at the drop of a hat, etc....i mean, i cry w/movies, commercials, etc...and if i'm upset, well...i can hardly breathe let alone express how i feel...
i find that my ability to communicate how i feel depends entirely upon being CALM...which is something i very rarely am...calm? what's that?? lol...so, if i can maintain "still waters" then all is well, however most often i am on the "rapids" and can barely paddle my way anywhere...
as for the trines, i dunno...i can only go by what others have shown me b/c i'm really not at the level of calculating my own chart...i'm still at the beginning stages of more "serious" learning...but i see what you mean regarding the aspects...

Minderwiz:

i see your point in regard to planets and asteriods, i was merely going by a chart i had done some time ago...*shrugs* but i'm also in the minority in that i love my Asc and if i find an excuse to us it, i usually do
heh, my astrologer friend has a fairly similar view on trines, she doesn't like 'em much and thinks i shouldn't even look at mine...she has the same feeling that the t-square is where i will get all the "good stuff" from, which is why i've been trying to understand it better (since she told me about this a year or so ago)...
money? who said money?? lol...sorry, but i know i will never be rich...w/the Mars/Saturn thing and then Neptune in opposition, melting everything away, well...no, i will not be rich...yes, i can make money, no doubt w/my Jupiter in Cappy if i work hard at anything i can be "lucky" and (somewhat) successful...but, i generally don't care about money that much...i'm more interested in helping people...(i'd probably make a good social worker if i wasn't so sensitive to others)...

anyway, thank you both for your insight...i appreciate it...will keep it all in mind as i read more...

many blessings,

~azure

Trines and T-squares

TRINES: Motors work well when they are based on three poles that alternately pull the armature forward. This makes for a very efficient use of energy. Trines are like that, they make for an easy expression of the energy of the involved planets. However, you can get in a rut with trines, allowing that energy to be activated unthinkingly -- becoming almost a "fixed" quality of expression. Trine usage can be habit-forming in addition to being a strength.
T-SQUARES: These are made up of ONE opposition and TWO squares. The opposition is either a projection or a countering energy in most cases. The two squares each represent a challeng of their own, a stress-dynamic that you have to work at using well, of integrating those forces. These challenges have to incorporate a reconcilliation or modification of the opposition. Because you have three points in your chart (with a t-square) that are activated simultaneously by a transit or progression, the t-square becomes a frequent and intrusive challenge to deal with. This factor contributes to it's reputation as being a driver towards growth and action. When one point is hit by a trine or sextile aspect the other two points have to deal with different aspects such as a inconjunct. This constitutes varying energy levels each time the t-square is activated. With the TRINE, this is also true but the trine-sensitivity tends to react just in a trine manner (hence the "rut" or automatic repsonse mode). Dave.

thanks for the breakdown, dads...now, a quick question...

does this mean that the T-Square would be more active than the Grand Trine? meaning, would have more transits and such?? just curious...

also, as i was looking at my chart and saw the upcoming progression of Saturn...it's going to oppose my natal Jupiter in a year, year and a half or so...thereby completing the missing leg for a grand cross...would there be any significance to this opposition?? (just curious if anyone has any thoughts, gonna be reading about this later since hubby's coming home early [meaning reading time for me! hehe])

thanks a bunch!!

many blessings,

~azure

p.s. i always worry about posting things of this nature...had a bad experience on another astrology board (accusations of asking for "chart readings" were rampant...if i wanted such a thing, i know more than one astrologer i'd be happy to pay for such a service)...i'm not looking for anyone to "read" my chart, merely help me understand it better, point me in the right direction...thereby helping ME help someone else should that opportunity present itself...if these posts are inappropriate or anything, please do let me know...i wouldn't want to be a bother, ya know?

Trine & conjunction contacts for azure

A grand trine and a t-square each have 3 planets or more, therefore any aspect to one will create some form of aspect to the others. A two-planet trine will also have almost as many aspects to either/both of its planets. It all depends upon what you consider an aspect to be, or what effect various aspects seem to have upon you. Some people ignore certain aspects or patterns, or aspects to some planets (but not others). In other words, our natal chart patterns and our life's experience seem to condition us as to what we strongly respond to or selectively respond to. As far as Saturn "completing" a t-square by coming to the the open point, it MAY likely depend upon how Saturn is connected to those planets in your natal chart. Aspects, sign rulerships, house rulerships can sensitize you more or less to Saturn. Typically, if some relationship doesn't exist between Saturn and the t-square planets, Saturn will likely be associated with a weaker response or a nothing-experience. Although that is not often the case. Saturn is one of those intrusive energies. Dave. PS, I just discovered where/what my messages are and saw that you had sent one earlier (along with messages from others) that I hadn't seen. Sorry. Dave.

Re: Trine & conjunction contacts for azure

dadsnook2000 said:

As far as Saturn "completing" a t-square by coming to the the open point, it MAY likely depend upon how Saturn is connected to those planets in your natal chart. Aspects, sign rulerships, house rulerships can sensitize you more or less to Saturn. Typically, if some relationship doesn't exist between Saturn and the t-square planets, Saturn will likely be associated with a weaker response or a nothing-experience.

Click to expand...

well, for starters, Saturn is my chart ruler b/c of my Aqua Asc...otherwise, out of the three planets in the T-square, it only has an aspect to one, it trines my Moon...AND, it is the ruler of Jupiter's sign, Capricorn...so, yep, i think it will be significant...lol... ok, i'm off to read...or something...

many blessings,

~azure

p.s. don't worry about the mssg, dads...no biggie...

oh azure, don't worry about posting something inappropriate here! Your questions are just fine, and if anything was amiss, certainly Minderwiz and I would have let you know.

I once read somewhere that ppl w/strong Saturn energy in their natal charts don't feel the Saturn transits so bad b/c they have had a lifetime to get used to a constant Saturnian presence in their lives anyways. Or maybe that person wrote it to make us w/Saturn chart rulers feel better lol. It's a nice thing to hear though!! (My Saturn aspects almost every bloody planet in my chart!)

isthmus nekoi & Saturn

I know how you feel about Saturn. I have it in the 10th at one end of a t-square with Sun/Nepture (opposite) and Jupiter (square all the others). One of the most depressing times of my life was some 27 years ago when Saturn transited my ASC angle. I'm OK with Saturn as long as treat its impulses within a conventional balance (square to Jupiter) and avoid wild ideas (opposite Sun/Neptune). The Saturn-opposite-Neptune is an interesting pattern. Robert Pelletier (Planets in Houses, Planets in Signs) noted that Neptune relates to the reality of illusion and Saturn relates to the illusion of reality. Interesting observation. I see my Saturn as enabling me to build bridges between reality and imagination/vision. Well, in a couple of years I get to do it all again (Saturn over the ASC) -- it will be interesting to see how it goes this time around. Dave.