Tax Stamp disappointment
Sumada
Hello again,
Thanks for your replies Abrac and EnchantedShadow. Sounded good for a while there Abrac, and I relaxed in the knowledge that my decks were from 1917 or older; like yours would appear to be also EnchantedShadow. But perhaps not, as I will explain.
Firstly, my apologies for posting that Peter Endebrock link above without even checking it! - its dead.
But this one works - http://www.endebrock.de/stamps/st-f.html
...and I now believe the information and images are superior to Kaplan's, especially when considered in the light of the following discovery.
I sourced copies of The Encyclopedia of Tarot vol.1 & 2 to view the pages Abrac mentioned, and found that some of the tax stamp information in vol.2 is contradicted by an image in vol.1 !!
Kaplan states there was no tax stamp used between 1922 and 1940, and yet the Grimaud TdM on p.138 vol.1, which he says is from 1930, actually has the 12 Avril 1890 stamp on the Ace of Deniers*; confirming what Endebrock said about it being (re)used between 1922 and 1940. You have to use a strong magnifier, and even then its a case of looking more at the length of the inscription than the actual words - then compare with the very clear scans on Endebrock's page. There is a distinct gap between the R of Republique and the D of Decret, and again between the 0 of 1890 and the last e of Francaise, but there is no such gap on the two subsequent tax stamps, (because their inscription is longer), so it has to be the 1890 stamp on Kaplan's 1930 Grimaud TdM. And it is a 1930 deck because, using the magnifier again, you can clearly see that Le Bateleur has two coins rather than dice on his table.
Therefore, this raises the question once again, just exactly how old is a deck with an 1890 stamp? I guess the back design is a bit of a clue Abrac, but hardly definitive, and I'm stating to feel that twinge of disappointment returning.
*as does the Dusserre repro I might add!
Thanks for your replies Abrac and EnchantedShadow. Sounded good for a while there Abrac, and I relaxed in the knowledge that my decks were from 1917 or older; like yours would appear to be also EnchantedShadow. But perhaps not, as I will explain.
Firstly, my apologies for posting that Peter Endebrock link above without even checking it! - its dead.
But this one works - http://www.endebrock.de/stamps/st-f.html
...and I now believe the information and images are superior to Kaplan's, especially when considered in the light of the following discovery.
I sourced copies of The Encyclopedia of Tarot vol.1 & 2 to view the pages Abrac mentioned, and found that some of the tax stamp information in vol.2 is contradicted by an image in vol.1 !!
Kaplan states there was no tax stamp used between 1922 and 1940, and yet the Grimaud TdM on p.138 vol.1, which he says is from 1930, actually has the 12 Avril 1890 stamp on the Ace of Deniers*; confirming what Endebrock said about it being (re)used between 1922 and 1940. You have to use a strong magnifier, and even then its a case of looking more at the length of the inscription than the actual words - then compare with the very clear scans on Endebrock's page. There is a distinct gap between the R of Republique and the D of Decret, and again between the 0 of 1890 and the last e of Francaise, but there is no such gap on the two subsequent tax stamps, (because their inscription is longer), so it has to be the 1890 stamp on Kaplan's 1930 Grimaud TdM. And it is a 1930 deck because, using the magnifier again, you can clearly see that Le Bateleur has two coins rather than dice on his table.
Therefore, this raises the question once again, just exactly how old is a deck with an 1890 stamp? I guess the back design is a bit of a clue Abrac, but hardly definitive, and I'm stating to feel that twinge of disappointment returning.
*as does the Dusserre repro I might add!
Sumada
Hey LRichard - good spotting :~) you posted while I was still composing!
arcano
Hi
To appreciate the authenticity, all details will be compared with the original.
Now, what is original and what is not?
We can not know, we will rely on certifications of Museums, Libraries, collectors etc.,
Often unfairly, for having errors. Unfortunately, these are given by valid.
The tax stamp is a dating gives us security at the time of the piece in question. Obviously we must first be sure that the tax stamp not adulterated or counterfeited. This is very common.
A case in point are the first two editions of the Tarot of Marseilles House BP Grimaud.
In the first, Lis flower and coins, have the tax stamp Decret du 12 avril 1890
The second, Tulipan and given no tax stamp. Ediciona about 1944. -
That is the tax stamp gives us the time of each issue
To appreciate the authenticity, all details will be compared with the original.
Now, what is original and what is not?
We can not know, we will rely on certifications of Museums, Libraries, collectors etc.,
Often unfairly, for having errors. Unfortunately, these are given by valid.
The tax stamp is a dating gives us security at the time of the piece in question. Obviously we must first be sure that the tax stamp not adulterated or counterfeited. This is very common.
A case in point are the first two editions of the Tarot of Marseilles House BP Grimaud.
In the first, Lis flower and coins, have the tax stamp Decret du 12 avril 1890
The second, Tulipan and given no tax stamp. Ediciona about 1944. -
That is the tax stamp gives us the time of each issue
Abrac
Sumada, you're absolutely right. I completely missed that one on the Ace. Now that I see Endebrok's website I'm more inclined to trust him over Kaplan; his research is more current. But if arcano's right that it's common for tax stamps to be counterfeited, it still leaves a question mark. I looked at mine and it doesn't have a tax stamp either.
Sumada
Thankyou arcano. It would seem then that mine and Abrac's decks could be as old as 1944.
Arcano, do you know when the makers name on the cards changed from B.P.Grimaud.Paris to just B.P.Grimaud?
Arcano, do you know when the makers name on the cards changed from B.P.Grimaud.Paris to just B.P.Grimaud?
arcano
Hi,
In 1962, the Grimaud House, closes, is sold.
I understand that,
From 1962 or 1963 are identified in several ways, with or without copyright, with or without year of publication. It may also be GRIMAUD, or B. P. Grimaud - Paris. In current times as Cartes de France or France cartes.
In 1962, the Grimaud House, closes, is sold.
I understand that,
From 1962 or 1963 are identified in several ways, with or without copyright, with or without year of publication. It may also be GRIMAUD, or B. P. Grimaud - Paris. In current times as Cartes de France or France cartes.
Sumada
arcano
Hi, Summed
We apologize for the confusion.
In 'Attached Images' identifications are France Cartes?, Or am I wrong?
There copyraights identification symbol and reads: GRIMAU. Gimaud. B. P.
Grimaud - Paris with or without the year of publishing.
France Cartes, has been used to identify 'Grimaud' in various forms over its 50 years of production.
All this is what I understand from what I've read and seen, but I can quivocarme.
Sincerely.
Arcane.
We apologize for the confusion.
In 'Attached Images' identifications are France Cartes?, Or am I wrong?
There copyraights identification symbol and reads: GRIMAU. Gimaud. B. P.
Grimaud - Paris with or without the year of publishing.
France Cartes, has been used to identify 'Grimaud' in various forms over its 50 years of production.
All this is what I understand from what I've read and seen, but I can quivocarme.
Sincerely.
Arcane.
