Planets in the 12th House

The_Hydra

The bane of my existence.

I have my Venus, Mars, and Jupiter (all in Leo which is also my Ascendant) in my 12th house. They're all conjunct and either square/opposite my Pluto or Saturn. (I know right.)

I've read little good about this and would like to know what I can do to stop suffering so gatdang much. Seriously I'm sick of it. Yes, even before the I knew the debilitating qualities of this placement I was depressed, suicidal, explosive and intense in relationships of all kinds... It's bad.

I know this is the house of unconscious patterns and self undoing so would breaking the patterns solve everything or is it just something I have to deal with until I expire (or apparently self detonate?)


Also, if anyone would like to read me my chart, I will literally pay you. I've done what I could with figuring it out and reading it myself.

db1ot06mz
 

Minderwiz

I can give you some more in depth feedback if you can give me your natal details - date and time of birth and place of birth. The chart doesn't give those and it doesn't include other significant information such as the speed of the planets (and whether any of them were either on station or about to station Retrograde, or whether what seems to be an aspect, might not perfect.

There are other calculated points which I would use but aren't shown on the chart.

If you don't want to post your natal details on the open forum, just send me a PM.

I can make some preliminary points,

Firstly, your Ascendant is in late Leo and your Moon is nearly half way through the last degree of Libra and your Sun is three quarters of the way through the last degree of Gemini. so How accurate is your birth time? A fairly small error could shift your Ascendant into Virgo and if slightly larger, your Moon into Scorpio (It's Fall) and an error of four or five hours, your Sun into Cancer.

Secondly, I would use Whole Sign Houses here and treat the whole of Leo as your first House (which was the original way of looking at houses). That would shift your Leo Conjunction into the first, which makes it relevant to your physical body (and your mind and spirit). That would put Mars in your first which in a day chart, suggests some element of self destruction or self harm.

The Mars/Saturn opposition isn't close but it might be enough to transfer that 'self destruction' into relationships.

It could also shift the Sun, your Ascendant Ruler, into the twelfth (depending on the accuracy of your birth time). That would be far more significant for your mental and physical health. Saturn would become ruler of your sixth house of ill health, and Saturn is the planet of Melancholy or Depression (to use the modern term).

Saturn also rules your Seventh house of Relationships

Thirdly, I don't treat Pluto as having any significance (other tha being a dwarf planet whose modern description is enough to depress anyone).

I can't answer your question about the solution, even with a complete chart, that would require an in depth consultation (probably with a health care professional). The most I could do is help you perceive the problem more objectively and that might help you reach a decision on your next step. But I would add that age might well be a factor in the ability to break a cycle. It's more easily broken if it hasn't decades of establishing itself.
 

The_Hydra

I can give you some more in depth feedback if you can give me your natal details - date and time of birth and place of birth. The chart doesn't give those and it doesn't include other significant information such as the speed of the planets (and whether any of them were either on station or about to station Retrograde, or whether what seems to be an aspect, might not perfect.

There are other calculated points which I would use but aren't shown on the chart.

If you don't want to post your natal details on the open forum, just send me a PM.

I can make some preliminary points,

Firstly, your Ascendant is in late Leo and your Moon is nearly half way through the last degree of Libra and your Sun is three quarters of the way through the last degree of Gemini. so How accurate is your birth time? A fairly small error could shift your Ascendant into Virgo and if slightly larger, your Moon into Scorpio (It's Fall) and an error of four or five hours, your Sun into Cancer.

Secondly, I would use Whole Sign Houses here and treat the whole of Leo as your first House (which was the original way of looking at houses). That would shift your Leo Conjunction into the first, which makes it relevant to your physical body (and your mind and spirit). That would put Mars in your first which in a day chart, suggests some element of self destruction or self harm.

The Mars/Saturn opposition isn't close but it might be enough to transfer that 'self destruction' into relationships.

It could also shift the Sun, your Ascendant Ruler, into the twelfth (depending on the accuracy of your birth time). That would be far more significant for your mental and physical health. Saturn would become ruler of your sixth house of ill health, and Saturn is the planet of Melancholy or Depression (to use the modern term).

Saturn also rules your Seventh house of Relationships

Thirdly, I don't treat Pluto as having any significance (other tha being a dwarf planet whose modern description is enough to depress anyone).

I can't answer your question about the solution, even with a complete chart, that would require an in depth consultation (probably with a health care professional). The most I could do is help you perceive the problem more objectively and that might help you reach a decision on your next step. But I would add that age might well be a factor in the ability to break a cycle. It's more easily broken if it hasn't decades of establishing itself.

I'll PM you my information, but I can say that the time of my birth is something I know for sure from various familial sources and my birth certificate. Strangely enough, my brother and I were born at the same time in the morning. So that made it memorable for everyone.

I do know from other reports that my Saturn is in the 6th house but I'll have you check out.

As for the doctor consultation, I already did that years ago, I wanted to further address the problem with actions I could take from my natal chart.
 

Minderwiz

I'll PM you my information, but I can say that the time of my birth is something I know for sure from various familial sources and my birth certificate. Strangely enough, my brother and I were born at the same time in the morning. So that made it memorable for everyone.

Yes that's fine. In such cases with very near sign changes, I always check how certain the timing is. Birth Certificates can be subject to error, sometimes rather a larger error but I doubted it could be nearly six hours out to shift the Sun into Cancer. The Ascendant changed sign to Virgo at 10:31 but most recording errors put the birth time later than it actually was, rather than earlier than it was. So I'll keep to your recorded time, especially as the family have validated it.

The_Hydra said:
I do know from other reports that my Saturn is in the 6th house but I'll have you check out.

As for the doctor consultation, I already did that years ago, I wanted to further address the problem with actions I could take from my natal chart.


The position of Saturn in the chart depends on the house system used. All quadrant systems will put it in the sixth house (or possibly the fifth) but the original house system of Whole Sign Houses allocates the houses according to sign. Thus Leo is your first, Virgo your second, Libra your third, Scorpio your fourth, etc. Saturn in Aquarius is in the seventh under this system. That means that it has a significant role in relationships and as it also rules Capricorn, it has a significant role in ill health (both mental and physical).

Thanks for the last comment. I don't claim to be a therapist or a consultant or any other therapeutic role. I can give you some pointers from your chart though and once I've had time to do some checks, I'll come back to you on those.
 

Smiling

The bane of my existence.

I have my Venus, Mars, and Jupiter (all in Leo which is also my Ascendant) in my 12th house. They're all conjunct and either square/opposite my Pluto or Saturn. (I know right.)

I've read little good about this and would like to know what I can do to stop suffering so gatdang much. Seriously I'm sick of it. Yes, even before the I knew the debilitating qualities of this placement I was depressed, suicidal, explosive and intense in relationships of all kinds... It's bad.

I know this is the house of unconscious patterns and self undoing so would breaking the patterns solve everything or is it just something I have to deal with until I expire (or apparently self detonate?)


Also, if anyone would like to read me my chart, I will literally pay you. I've done what I could with figuring it out and reading it myself.

db1ot06mz

Hi Hydra,

It sounds like Minderwiz is already checking on the details of your chart to help you out. I wanted to share my experiences reading charts for people with 12th house placements with you, since it seems you have some planets there in your natal, and perhaps you may find this helpful as well.

It's true, as you say, that the 12th house can represent the unconscious/one's undoing.

And then the 12th house is also so much more. Because it represents confinement, it rules hospitals and prisons. So there are a number of people that I know, who do amazing work with prison inmates and hospice programs, who have very busy 12th houses. In fact, some of the most giving, humble, compassionate people have very strong 12th houses. For example, Mahatma Gandhi's Sun was in his 12th house.

The 12th also represents behind-the-scenes activities. So I've seen busy 12th houses in people's charts who do a lot of wonderful work in the theater (hiding behind a character) or who do beautiful set designs, which allows them to stay behind the curtain.

Personally, I have placements in my 12th house, too, and some of my most satisfying work has been with hospital patients. It gives me an outlet for the charitable energy that the 12th house describes, and has given me perspective on the troubles and challenges that cross my path. When you see some of the intense life tests that some people have been handed, you realize that your troubles may not be so bad after all.

I share this not to diminish in any way the difficulties that you've described, but in the hopes that this may be helpful in finding ways to channel 12th house energies in a more satisfying way. I do hope that you receive the comfort, care and help that you are looking for.

All the best to you. :)
 

Bonny

Hi Hydra,

From one who has her Venus in twelfth house, I can understand what you are saying too!

My background is not in astrology so there isn't much I can offer there - just wanted to give you a smile and say, my heart feels for you as I know too how incredible it is - how the experiences can be so seemingly stacked against with this - and yet isn't it wonderful to see the attributes as well?

The way it seems to happen for me is that the rest of my life can be swanning along fantastically yet the relationship part can get so pained and problematic - and believe you me, as a therapist and teacher and writer, it is not that i have not thought these things through deeply and made my best go at every step. There HAS to be an upside - I am writing now about relationships as there have been so many landscapes and spectrums of heart sharing that I have garnered fruits from - so I share this wisdom with others! (twelfth house of me!)

Thanks for placing this post. It is encouraging.

Blessings to you,

B:)
 

Vellata

Hydra,

I can understand your love and hate relationships with 12 house planets. My natal Sun is in 12th house, Aquarius.

However there are lots of other factors in your chart, that could contribute to how you feel/what you experience. For one - as Minderwiz already mentioned - both Sun and Moon are in last degrees of their sign. That makes me think, that you and your family experienced some life-turning events soon after you were born. Both - your Sun and Moon progressed from Air signs into water ones and progression to Water (emotions) is never easy for Air (mind). so I'd say, search your first two/two and half years and get as many skeletons out of the family closet as you can - they can hold a key to healing.

As for relationships - 5th house Uranus and Neptune could be contributing to the way you describe them even more than 12th house Venus. 5th house is fun and sexual encounters, but also creative expression in all it's forms. With natal Libra Moon, you could try to channel your experience in arts, especially ones, that have something to do with spontaneity and improvisation (Uranus in 5th) as well as being on stage (Leo rising/Leo Venus and Mars). So what about trying out music/drama therapy or hobby groups, unless you are professional in one of those fields already?

Hope it gave you some ideas.
 

Minderwiz

I've only had chance to cast the chart and take a preliminary look but it does provoke one or two questions, which may or may not lead to some useful advice. In the main, these are checks on the chart, so there aren't any right answers, but it will help me clarify one or two points.

Firstly, do you make friendships easily and how do your relationships with friends work out?

Secondly, you mentioned a brother, how does your relationship with him work out and, if you have more than one sibling, how do they work out?

Third, you mention depression as a problem; have you any tendency to being bi-polar? That is alternate highs and lows, or do you find that what looks to be fortunate circumstances tend not to work out as you would hope. If that is the case does it tend to happen particularly in relationships or is it more in other fields of life.

Fourthly, does your career/employment help matters or is it something that's also doesn't seem to work out as it should. This isn't 'Do you like work' but more 'Does work help deal with things or does it through up difficulties.'

Lastly, do you like to travel or do you find that travel brings difficulties? Do you like to get away from things? Does 'travel of the mind' - that is an interest in philosophy, learning, Astrology, tarot, etc act as something that allows you to 'deal with your situation' or is it another source of problems.

I'm not so interested in your motivation or psychology here but about what actually happens. Some of the issues here may not have come up yet. A Chart represents the possibilities for life and you've only just begun yours.

Valleta, also makes a good point. Both Sun and Moon changed signs by secondary progression during your first year. You would be too young to notice any change at the time and to remember it now, but it could well be change that was significant, especially as your Sun moved into your twelfth house.

By a technique knows as Profections, your Sun moved into your twelfth house on your first birthday, so the next twelve months might also contain important events. That process recurred when you turned 12 and when you turned 24, are those ages significant in any way?
 

The_Hydra

Hi Hydra,

It sounds like Minderwiz is already checking on the details of your chart to help you out. I wanted to share my experiences reading charts for people with 12th house placements with you, since it seems you have some planets there in your natal, and perhaps you may find this helpful as well.

It's true, as you say, that the 12th house can represent the unconscious/one's undoing.

And then the 12th house is also so much more. Because it represents confinement, it rules hospitals and prisons. So there are a number of people that I know, who do amazing work with prison inmates and hospice programs, who have very busy 12th houses. In fact, some of the most giving, humble, compassionate people have very strong 12th houses. For example, Mahatma Gandhi's Sun was in his 12th house.

The 12th also represents behind-the-scenes activities. So I've seen busy 12th houses in people's charts who do a lot of wonderful work in the theater (hiding behind a character) or who do beautiful set designs, which allows them to stay behind the curtain.

Personally, I have placements in my 12th house, too, and some of my most satisfying work has been with hospital patients. It gives me an outlet for the charitable energy that the 12th house describes, and has given me perspective on the troubles and challenges that cross my path. When you see some of the intense life tests that some people have been handed, you realize that your troubles may not be so bad after all.

I share this not to diminish in any way the difficulties that you've described, but in the hopes that this may be helpful in finding ways to channel 12th house energies in a more satisfying way. I do hope that you receive the comfort, care and help that you are looking for.

All the best to you. :)

When I was still in school, the degrees I wanted to get were in those areas. I did act for a little while and that was really fun for me, I could get lost in a character and totally become them. Ultimately I took a break because I couldn't decide what I wanted to major in and hope that I'll be able to return one day. It's funny you bring this up, I'm looking for another job right now because my last one was very unsatisfying (among other things.) I know there are some places near me that cater to the elderly or those who can't take care of themselves. One of my friend is a manager for one, so maybe I'll look into that.

Thank you for your encouragement :)
 

The_Hydra

Hi Hydra,

From one who has her Venus in twelfth house, I can understand what you are saying too!

My background is not in astrology so there isn't much I can offer there - just wanted to give you a smile and say, my heart feels for you as I know too how incredible it is - how the experiences can be so seemingly stacked against with this - and yet isn't it wonderful to see the attributes as well?

The way it seems to happen for me is that the rest of my life can be swanning along fantastically yet the relationship part can get so pained and problematic - and believe you me, as a therapist and teacher and writer, it is not that i have not thought these things through deeply and made my best go at every step. There HAS to be an upside - I am writing now about relationships as there have been so many landscapes and spectrums of heart sharing that I have garnered fruits from - so I share this wisdom with others! (twelfth house of me!)

Thanks for placing this post. It is encouraging.

Blessings to you,

B:)

That's exactly it, sometimes I can get everything together and going well but my relationships are chaos or they create disorder regardless of the stability or happiness elsewhere. Most of the time I avoid them altogether because they seem to seep into other parts of my life and cause problems there too thus pretty much destroying everything else as well. And you'd think it's because I do something or act a certain way to create problems but I'm the kind to give and give and love unconditionally. Even now that I have established healthy boundaries for myself I'm hesitant. It's like I can only keep my happiness around if I completely cut that out of my life and just be by myself.

It is really encouraging though to see other posters with this placement finding fulfillment though.. I'm happy because usually I feel misunderstood about these things. Thank you!