Discerning sexuality using tarot

I think i have said this before, but my intention to post this thread was not to exploit anyone because of their sexuality. As shade has just shown, finding this out in the cards can help a person a great deal by making verbose statements that the querent will interpret in their own special way.

I have different opinions on how i can use my deck and what i can find from it. Some people think it can only be used for self reflection, some for pure divination--i use mine analytically to make patterns mean something special in many more ways than just the pety realm of simple sexuality.

A good deal of it is a pronoun game and heterosexism. Whenever I get a reading from someone and they say "I see you with a woman who is..." I lose a little faith in their skills. I think one reason that this is a problem is that people associate "masculine cards" with men and "feminine cards" with women. When it looks like I will be dating a queen of swords it doesn't mean I am going to be dating a woman (although it probably does mean I should run for the hills).

Most people use neutral pronouns, "I think you will be with a person who..." and the like. Occasionally I get the reader who will just say "You should date a guy who..." and I am very impressed. Laurie Cabot the "Official Witch of Salem" did this in a psychic reading.

You can generally determine what pronouns you ought to use from the querent's question. If they say "What type of person should I date" do not answer "A guy who will..." This should keep everyone out of trouble.

As the thread Is he gay? Cards that can indicate is locked and these other threads have been indicated as existing threads on the subject, I tried to pick the thread that I thought the closest to the linked one above.

What Unicorn39's opening post (in the linked thread) brought to mind is that quite a variety of cards may have sexual manners in which they may be read (and of course, partly dependent on the deck).

The Ace of Batons (and, quite frankly, the Queen of Batons in some decks!) can be viewed in the manner described.

The Tower card has also been described as quite phalic; and the three swords as sexual intercourse.

Of course, each of these is only one (amongst many other) manner in which they may be seen in a specific reading-at-hand. In most circumstances, the sexual possibility would not (at least to my eyes) be relevant nor apparent.

With regards to sexual orientation, and Unicorn39's opening post about asking how her own relationship may be improved, and having the Ace of Batons arise and be seen in the manner described, it seems to me to be a very legitimate way to both use the cards and also allow the intuited reading to arise.

Given that I have replied in this thread, I had better also try and keep to the main topic herein!

So, for myself, the card(s) that appears to denote (to me) the most likely indication of male homosexuality any of the Batons court cards. Of course, in most reading situations, this would not indicate this at all!

I guess the reason and intention in asking the cards questions about sexual preference are important.

I also think Unicorn would have a legitimate reason for asking the Tarot about her partner’s sexuality. As JMD comments, it is also important that she understands that the cards have many interpretations and they are not usually read as islands – they relate to the cards around them.

Unicorn already wonders about her partner’s sexuality so she may simply project her own current suspicions on to what ever cards eventuate but she would be well aware of that.

And also she would be prepared to take responsibility for whatever interpretation she makes and what she does with that information. The information she gets may well give her the resolve and wisdom to discuss the issue with her partner. And if she is in a sexual relationship one could easily argue that she has a right to know.

The situation is not cut and dried. Intention and reason is always important. As a gay woman I am a little weary of a world which does not easily accept sexual difference, thus essentially leading to question about discerning sexuality. In most instances one would wonder why it matters, but in Unicorn’s situation I can see why it would.

Now, I have never seen a thread here asking what cards you would use to discern heterosexuality, for example. Nor have I ever seen a question about cards which could discern Catholicism or Christian fundamentalism. I imagine there might be some concern expressed if there were such threads.

In this line of thought as well, I became very tired of the question coming up repeatedly with the same old debates. For me, it seemed to replicate the discomfort and ignorance of society about gay and lesbian themes, the objectification of gay sexuality and a certain prurience in the community about the subject. I created the sticky at the head of Talking Tarot so that people could look at what had already been covered, and contribute to those discussions in an informed manner.

Working with issues of sexuality with Tarot is certainly worthwhile but the question and the context is always important.

Unicorn39 said:

I was wondering the community's opinions on tarot cards that can indicate homosexuality. I was doing a spread on my relationship with my ex-boyfriend (who I always secretly wondered about his sexual interest in men) and in the position of "What can you do to make this relationship work" the Ace of Wands came up. Right away, I saw (excuse my smutty brain) a hand on an enormous phallus. I thought that the answer of this card in this position was something akin to "Have a penis and then this relationship might work." HA!

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The Ace of Wands in this context, or by itself, could also apply to heterosexuality. Gay men are not the only individuals who hold phalluses are they? The possibilities in meaning here are immense but I’ll leave them to other imaginations.

Thanks Moongold for your well chosen words.

In reply to what I read before: yes, there are already many threads about this. But I am not that long here and so are others and we are all entitled to give our opinion. And perhaps they changed as well for people who are here longer.

The reason why I think it is not wise to ask cards instead of people themselves has a few reasons. And I like to say that I don't want to offend anyone in advance, and if I do I apoligize but you should also take in consideration that it is only an opinion.

First of all I think it is not polite to ask tarot. Sexuality is something most personal and it is up to people themselves to decide whether they like to share about that or not. I cannot imagine myself asking cards if my partner might like men as well instead of asking herself. I believe she would think I've gone nuts. We care to have a relationship where it is possible to ask questions. Of all kind. Especially if they may be relevant for having a true relationship.

Second, I don't believe in correct answers from tarot about these specific matters. The world is not so simple. There are no straight people alike, as there are no gay people alike. It is just a matter of preference, and that covers all kinds of sexual perception. Being gay or not, is just one small aspect of that. And what is straight and gay anyway.

It may be simple for most people, at least perhaps at the outside but I have been in scenes where this is not so easy to decide. And why should we? And why should we care? How would we define a gay woman who slept with men as well? How would we define a straight woman who slept with women as well? Bi-sexual? But what if they don't see it that way themselves? If it was just an experiment? Or maybe not? And what cards would represent this all, being just a few examples? I don't want to offend anyone with these examples but I wanted to show that there are no answers except for peoples own defining. If they want to do so. Because again, who cares?

I can imagine that when we suspect somebody to be gay or having other questions about sexuality and not daring to "come out" (I hate that word), that carefully talking in a friendly and save environment could save lifes. Even litterally.

But sometimes we don't need cards. Just our common sense and loads of empathy and support. Perhaps tarot cards can help when a spread is done together, to get advise on how to pursue in life, but I feel from all my heart that it would be wrong to ask cards whether somebody is gay or not without their knowing. Of course I wouldn't know if somebody asked tarot about my preferences. There is nothing I could do. Well, I could save a lot of time by telling that I am gay. I am. And that is how it should be imo, I should tell myself.

Blessings

Edited to add:

Second, I don't believe in correct answers from tarot about these specific matters.

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I was wrong, I think tarot can give true answers about sexuality and it's possible complexities. I meant that I don't believe that we can interprete them all, as we can only interprete from our own references and experiences in life. Hope this says it in better words

Thank you Dwaas ~

Yes .... you raise some very interesting points. Sexuality is on a bell curve and people can be any place in the curve at any time in their lives.

I also think it it would be good if people felt they could ask about sexual preference directly but society as it is does not always provide the safest environment for such questions.

There is room for all points of view and people frequently travel from one point of view to the next very quickly .

Your post also raises very interesting questions for me about the nature of Tarot reading itself. How much do we rely on symbols, how much on so called "intuition" and how much on life experience, education and knowledge to make our readings? And .... well, we have not even begun to discuss the projections which come from deeply felt conscious and unconcious needs .

So getting back to discerning sexual preference through Tarot, it is a very individual decision each Reader must make as whether and how this may be done.

At least the information and views in discussions like this may inform that decision making process.

At the risk of sounding like a wet blanket, I'm going to respectfully disagree with this statement:

I also think Unicorn would have a legitimate reason for asking the Tarot about her partner’s sexuality.

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As I read the portion of Unicorn's post, as quoted by Moongold, Unicorn was asking about the sexual orientation of an ex-boyfriend - and said she had always wondered. I find reading cards about the matter objectionable on two levels.

First, the time to have made an inquiry about that was while the two were sexual partners - not after the fact. Certainly, when one is engaged in an intimate, sexual relationship with another person, there is some information one is entitled to - and if a candid discussion is not forthcoming when the partner is asked, that would be a big red flag for me to make a hasty exit.

Second, if she just had to know afterward, the appropriate thing to do would be, as other posters have pointed out, to just ask. Otherwise, I view a reading about it in the same manner as I do those that various people have discussed in other threads, the kind that ask about another person (usually a former romantic partner in a new relationship), "What does s/he see in her/him (the new partner)?" If it felt a little too nosey to ask something like that outright, why does reading cards seem any better?

Although I love tarot myself, I hate to see instances where people want to substitute a reading - particularly one as highly emotionally charged as these types of readings are - for plain old communication between people.

And I completely agree with Moongold when she says, "I have never seen a thread here asking what cards you would use to discern heterosexuality, for example. Nor have I ever seen a question about cards which could discern Catholicism or Christian fundamentalism. I imagine there might be some concern expressed if there were such threads."

Maybe it's because I've spent most of my life being "different" from other people and have always tried to be very up front and honest in answering questions, but when I saw this thread this morning, it really set my teeth on edge. I'm sure a lot of my frustration with the topic had to do with a relationship I recently ended with a man who, despite my candor with him on just about every subject imaginable, spied on me electronically. I think, however, that the majority of my discomfort is because I view the tarot as a tool for self-discovery, whether the Seeker is the reader or is reading for someone else at their request and with their knowledge.

These are reasonable views, Sharpchick.

I refer you to the point about intention and context. No-one is really in a position to judge Unicorn39 on this. She may have wanted the information to help her understand and be reading from the point of view of self-exploration.

I think each person needs to make their own ethical decisions on things like this. No-one else has a complete overview.

Where I do have some difficulty is considering a Reader in a situation where s/he reaches a conclusion about someone else's sexuality on some tenuous understanding of something s/he may have read here or in a book, and comments on this, possibly resulting in harm to the querent or someone close to them. This might be particularly risky and intrusive if the querent had not asked a specific question about sexuality.

This entire matter is one of complex sensitivities and there are few absolutes or simple answers to issues around it.

I wouldn't (and couldn't) use Tarot cards to get information about someone else's sexual preferences because I don't believe there are certain cards which indicate sexual preferences.

But I think it could come up in an intuitive reading and then I don't see anything negative in it, because you didn't do the spread to "spy" on someone. It came up and your intuition told you to interpet it that way. There's nothing wrong with that.

Then the next step might be to talk with this person, if this is something that needs to be discussed and worked out.

If I think about my past relationships and if I did a reading using this position and if I came up with the Ace of Wands, then my first thoughts would be, that there was not enough passion and creative energy, that there wasn't enough effort to keep it alive. And this certainly would be a valuable info for the future, for future relationships.

Someone else might come up with quite different interpretations though ... depending on their relationships.

rainwolf said:

Oh that thread helps...a little different from mine but it has a lot of info i wanted. I hope gargoyle_guarded doesnt mind, but i thought id quote her here. If you do GG, just tell me and ill remove it.



I've chosen these cards because to me the fool reversed is not moving forward; the moon reversed is about lies, deception, illusions; the stars reversed is about a negative self-image, self-doubts; the stars upright is about mutual love or a love of two different things; the magician upright is about laying everything on the table, and saying "this is me, this is who I am".
"

I almost forgot, another book i had also says an ill dignified page of cups may show homosexuality. Thanks for the thread!

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I agree with you as far as the page of cups is concerned, I have always found that when he comes up reversed in a spread, I am dealing with someone who is having problems with his sexuality, is very confused, and very fearful of these emotions