Discerning sexuality using tarot

Sophie

Dwaas said:
Hi Helvetica,
Aparently my voice is no part of the "common sense and reason". ;)
If only you knew how often I am called unreasonable, you would laugh ;) - I take your point, but I really don't think tarot readers have that kind of power, even if they are ace tarot readers. In my view, the divine does not let tarot cards be so misused.
 

Dwaas

Helvetica said:
If only you knew how often I am called unreasonable, you would laugh ;) - I take your point, but I really don't think tarot readers have that kind of power, even if they are ace tarot readers. In my view, the divine does not let tarot cards be so misused.

Hi! :)

Ehm, let me try in other words. I agree, tarot readers in general do not have that kind of power, AND the divine does not let tarot cards be so misused.
But I was not talking about tarot itself and it's guardian powers or whatever to call them.

I was talking about readers and their intentions. Let me give another perhaps ridiculous example, but just to get away from tarot itself. Say I am a louzy burglar, I come to your home, you have excellent locks on your doors and windows. So I don't succeed. Now there is nothing to talk about, nothing to discuss with me, nothing to be worried about? Just because I am not able to steal things away my intentions are not relevant??

And that is what I wanted to talk about, to raise the point of ethics again. Of course there is no censorship needed, but I thought a (yes I know, a never ending) discussion would be interesting and relevant.
Also because I cannot visit any page of tarotreaders on the web without being pointed to their rules of ethics. Then what about nosing around without permission when regarding very personal matters like sexual preferences. I said before I also don't believe in correct answers, for what ever reason, but still the intention is questionable imo. So that is what I do. Ad nauseum apparently :D
Blessings
 

Rogan

I like the cut of Dwaas's gibe....
And love the way he/she has rephrased the example with the "lousy burglar vs excellent locks" case. It's all about intent...
 

Moongold

Dwaas said:
Hi! :)

I was talking about readers and their intentions. Let me give another perhaps ridiculous example, but just to get away from tarot itself. Say I am a louzy burglar, I come to your home, you have excellent locks on your doors and windows. So I don't succeed. Now there is nothing to talk about, nothing to discuss with me, nothing to be worried about? Just because I am not able to steal things away my intentions are not relevant??

And that is what I wanted to talk about, to raise the point of ethics....

Dear Dwaas ~

What each person does with their intent is their own business. Nobody can tell others what to do. I know you understand that.

I think Helvetica's post is spot on. We can discuss intent and ethics forever but ultimately they are very individual things. People determine their own ethics. I doubt very much that most Tarot readers here can pick up such intimate and exact information about people that was not fairly discernible in other ways.

Let's be realistic. Tarot is not burglary and you cannot invade or steal another's soul unless they allow it.

I've already said why I'm tired of seeing the question of discerning sexuality come up here. But I accept it's part of a process for many until experience teaches them otherwise.

Many blessings ....
 

Moongold

Rogan ~

Why does it matter so much to you? I'm curious to know.

If you don't wish to read this way, then you don't need to. But neither you or I can stop anyone else, as they would not want to stop you reading in any way you want to. :).
 

Dwaas

Hi Moongold,
Thanks for replying again. I will make this my last post in this topic as I think my lack of knowledge of the English language make me come up with examples and statements which seem to be misunderstood. That of course is not my intention. I give it one more try :)

Moongold said:
What each person does with their intent is their own business. Nobody can tell others what to do. I know you understand that.

Yes, I do. :)

Moongold said:
I think Helvetica's post is spot on. We can discuss intent and ethics forever but ultimately they are very individual things. People determine their own ethics. I doubt very much that most Tarot readers here can pick up such intimate and exact information about people that was not fairly discernible in other ways.

Yes we can discuss intent and ethics forever. If we like to. I thought this thread was meant to do so. And you are very right that these are individual things. That's why I think it is so interesting to exchange these personal views on ethics. I really NEVER mean to offend you or anyone, I respect you highly, but if you feel tired of a discussion you are not obliged to join. Please forgive me if it sounds more harsh than I intend, if it were in Dutch I would have chosen my words in the way you and many others can.

Moongold said:
Let's be realistic. Tarot is not burglary and you cannot invade or steal another's soul unless they allow it.
Absolutely true. Said it was a ridiculous example. I thought I never spoke about stealing away souls, I tried to give an example to show that it is intention that matters, not the stealing or whatsoever itself. It seems I failed to explain. I also never spoke about censorship and somehow this word showed up as well. I like and defend freedom of thought, speech and cardspreads on anything. It is up to anyone self, but I never understood why people don't want to talk about the ethics behind that. I find it highly interesting :)

Moongold said:
I've already said why I'm tired of seeing the question of discerning sexuality come up here. But I accept it's part of a process for many until experience teaches them otherwise.
Forgive me again when I am wrong, perhaps it is my lack of knowledge again, or my sensitivity, but this sounds a bit patronizing.
And that is ok as well. As said before, I respect you and others who disagree with me highly. I don't want polemics just because of having polemics. And if you find these kind of discussions boring then I stop posting in this thread. Anyway I feel that my discussion skills are limited because I cannot expres myself as I would like.

Thanks for your time, your responses and interesting insights. See you all around in other threads.
Warm blessings
 

Moongold

Dear Dwaas ~

Your English expression seems to me to be excellent. As long as we try to sincerely communciate, and I think we are, we cannot go too far wrong.

I am sorry if I seemed patronizing. My words were perhaps not carefully chosen, and indicate more weariness than anything else. I do appreciate your sincerity.

However, I guess I've nothing further to add to comments already made.

Best ~ Moongold
 

Rogan

Moongold said:
Rogan ~

Why does it matter so much to you? I'm curious to know.

If you don't wish to read this way, then you don't need to. But neither you or I can stop anyone else, as they would not want to stop you reading in any way you want to. :).

This is an easy question to answer - And Im happy to do so...
Being a gay guy myself, I know exactly what it's like to have people questioning your sexuality in your social circles... Im not overtly gay, and many people wouldn't know it unless I actually brought it up in conversation...

But remembering back to highschool, and even university (when I actually came out officially) I remember how brutally self-conscious I was about people discussing my personal life behind my back... If anyone had the courage to ask, I would have happily told them the truth... But (and this especially goes for highschool) the whispers and questioning that I was more than aware of were a real tough and difficult thing for me to deal with - Not only being gay and not knowing what to do about it... but seemingly being "forced" to face it by others who were questioning it along with me, but behind my back... it speeds the process up, you know what I mean? Suddenly it's not just about you coming out in your own time, its about feeling you HAVE to come out, because you figure "well... they're talking about it... they seem to know more than I do about what Im going through... so I'll just take the leap..."

So I guess yeah - I take the subject of this thread a little more personally, because Ive been on the receiving end of it - The "is he or isn't he" question is so hard to deal with when it's you in the spotlight... That's why I think it's intrusive... Because if he is... let him deal with it in his own time... you knowing isn't going to help the situation, it'll only make things more difficult... the pressure of suddenly "well... she's TOTALLY suspecting that I am... is it THAT obvious?" can really screw a guy up... especially when he's learning to deal with it himself first...

Wow... Im rambling... But yeah, i guess it's the truth... I think a lot of gay guys on this site would agree with me...

I think I'll get of my soap-box now... I didn't mean it to sound so serious... But some guys will sooner kill themselves before facing their "truth"... And whether or not you're finding out via Tarot... or via social whispers... or via hacking emails or whatever - If the guy himself isn't telling you himself... then he either doesn't want you to know yet... or he's not ready to face it himself... And that's real tough...

Okay... I'll leave it at that...
My two cents.

Rogan.
 

Moongold

Thanks Rogan ~

I think I understand. We internalize the social judgments -fear, guilt and often, self-loathing. Some of us choose the liberation of public declaration but that often comes with its own costs and is not a choice for everyone. I think you are displacing something from your past experience on to the question in hand and it may not be appropriate.

If one is open about one’s sexuality the sheer burden of having to wear the stigma is a continuing weight. Outsiderdom. Denis Altman said in his Homosexual – Oppression and Liberation (Angus & Robertson, 1971) “There are times when I don’t disclose my homosexuality – a choice denied others stigmatized – because I am tired of being viewed, however, sympathetically, as an outsider.”

It makes me weary, to be honest, to see the subject of homosexuality come up here again and again in this way and I’ve said why in an earlier part of this thread. Where are the threads in Aeclectic that ferret out heterosexuality, Christian fundamentalism or Catholicism?

On the one hand, I feel like saying to some people Get a life and go and talk to real gay people. Read some books. Educate yourself . I know Rainwolf opened this thread and he is openly gay but I think his question actually springs from self-exploration more than anything else. On the other hand I feel, in a diminishing way now, the obligation to help others understand so that they won’t go out and hurt someone with their ignorance.

I think in a different way, you are objecting to the same thing that I am – the often prurient objectification of homosexuality. This comes from ignorance, institutional thinking and the need for society to have scapegoats. It doesn’t make growing up gay or living gay any easier. Mind you, when I was younger and found my peers, I loved being radically different, even if at times it caused some difficulty.

I don’t believe that most people can discern the sexuality of others from the cards alone. Highly gifted readers might pick it up but genuinely gifted intuitives are actually quite rare. Genuinely gifted psychics are even rarer. I also don’t believe it should matter to you or to me what others do with their cards. We should only be concerned with ourselves. Nor do we have any power whatsoever to influence what others so with their cards.

I am a gay woman too, Rogan – all my life. And I know Outsiderdom quite well. By the way it does not only apply to us. It applies to any group of people who do not meet the criteria which society deems acceptable – people with disabilities, addictions, criminal records, racial differences and so on.

Sometimes people ask here because they want to know themselves. They may be some where on that bell curve of sexuality which makes them wonder about themselves just like you, many years ago, but they may not know it yet :D

Moongold
 

Redfirestone

I don't know about other spreads, but for relationship spreads I think tht if the querent is including another person and the card is the same sex as the querent then that would tell me their sexuality, but I do see how this can make for an inaccurate reading so I don't really make that judgement.