POLL: New Forum Section?

Teheuti said:

I don't think it is the presence of speculation itself that is the real problem in Historical Research. Many ideas have been willingly explored based on speculation.

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I agree. And perhaps this reasoning will allow for the creation of this subcategory in the history section.

Teheuti said:

Rather it is the failure of some speculators to understand that once a speculation is made then it is examined to see if any facts support it. Furthermore, if the facts don't then it is taken as a personal affront (and sometimes the personal gets mixed into it on both sides). An even bigger issue, to my mind, is the unwillingness to accept or learn about historical research methods and standards that are used to evaluate the likelihood of a speculation. True historical research cannot operate without them.

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But, isn't this the very reason we're talking about starting an entirely new section? It's been established that some ideas and speculations can't be substantiated with absolute evidence. So why continue to demand the same rules of historical research methods and standards that don't apply to this area of speculation? Can't we allow these ideas to remain as possibilities - without being shut down for not living up to higher standards of research? Of course, historians can comment on why they feel the idea doesn't live up to these expectations (hopefully in a civil manner), but if we demand evaluation by the same standards, then we really don't need a separate section.

Teheuti said:

The Speculation section could examine possibilities for which there are no facts but persuasive reasons, with a lot of latitude given to the soundness of the reasons.

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The statement that all these ideas are speculations "for which there are no facts" sounds a bit condescending. I hope you didn't mean it that way. There is a difference between presenting an idea as if it were fact, vs. presenting FACTS surrounding an idea. Just because these facts don't prove the idea by themselves doesn't mean that the idea is not based upon some facts - however circumstantial or disconnected they may appear. The "soundness" of the ideas will probably determine the extent of the discussion in the forum.

Teheuti said:

I hope we can also speculate on why certain ideas take hold and others don't.

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This may be one of the central contributions from the history section. Honest feedback, rational assessment and factual insights would likely be welcomed - if they're offered in a constructive way.

Abrac said:

I wouldn't mind seeing a subforum in Historical Research called "Theory and Speculation," with one criterion being that theories should at least be based on some kind of logic, even if there's no direct evidence. To me, a thread that's nothing but speculative flights of fancy would get boring very fast and I'm sure I wouldn't participate.

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While I think that some of the title suggestions were merely tongue-in-cheek, I agree that there needs to be some constraint on the posts, and that this should be reflected somehow in the forum title. If thoughtless flights of fancy were to become the norm, I, too, would not participate. There are clearly other forums for such posts.

LRichard said:

While I think that some of the title suggestions were merely tongue-in-cheek, I agree that there needs to be some constraint on the posts, and that this should be reflected somehow in the forum title. If thoughtless flights of fancy were to become the norm, I, too, would not participate. There are clearly other forums for such posts.

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Perhaps a subtitle could reflect the kind of threads that are appropriate for that area, or general expectations for posting. But I hope we can stay away from terms like "playground" and "sandbox," as they are suggestive of juvenile or frivolous ideas - the very thing the history section wants to discourage.

foolish said:

Perhaps a subtitle could reflect the kind of threads that are appropriate for that area, or general expectations for posting. But I hope we can stay away from terms like "playground" and "sandbox," as they are suggestive of juvenile or frivolous ideas - the very thing the history section wants to discourage.

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Yes. Even if "playground" and "sandbox" were tongue-in-cheek responses to the intolerance of a few of the historical purists, I think they are inappropriate for a forum title because they can be misleading to someone who does not know the background of the controversy. It needs to have a serious title, one which clearly indicates the appropriate types of posts.

Κλειω

The daughter of Memory who makes famous the otherwise obscure is "knowledge through inquiry" - a muse celebrating our past through the poetry of purifying prayers. While I doubt any of us will burst out in epic song any time soon, perhaps a suitable name for this new forum could draw upon more ancient meanings of the word: Historia

Yygdrasilian said:

While I doubt any of us will burst out in epic song any time soon, perhaps a suitable name for this new forum could draw upon more ancient meanings of the word: Historia

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Or, for those who prefer something on the lighter side (i.e. to differentiate it from the more serious historical reasearch), how about "History's Mysteries?" - perhaps with an explanitive subtitle. Nothing here to prove, but like a good mystery, a reasonable amount of "clues" are essential to create a good story.

I think everyone should be required to burst into epic song before posting in the new section.

Debra said:

I think everyone should be required to burst into epic song before posting in the new section.

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Well, this sold me, I voted for it.

I don't post in HR ever, but I do read it a lot and appreciate very much the efforts of the posters to keep things rigorous and up to snuff. I hope the creation of a new forum allows people to have the fun they want---and I'm sure I'll join in --while maintaining the integrity of HR!

Debra said:

I think everyone should be required to burst into epic song before posting in the new section.

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All together now:

bye bye history
hello mystery
I think I wanna cry-i
bye bye my baby
bye bye-i

I don't see how removing the speculative type threads from Historical Research is going to harm Historical Research.