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Lyones 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sophie-David
There is another one from the same site here with slightly different information and a different picture: http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article...order=0&thold=0

I have not been able to find any information on who St. Ambrew, alias St. Ambrusca, was.

In spite of the H for hermit sign, it looks like a contemporary Lancelot would be out of luck - the well door is locked.

I would think that the door could not be very old, perhaps no more than 200 years, since it is made of wood - correct me if I am wrong.
Thanks David I couldn't find anything else at all, so this is great.

As for the door's age ... rationally I would place it as being fairly recent, as you say 200 years is probable ... however, I'm constantly amazed at how things of antiquity can seem to last forever. You're a spiritually inclined person, do you believe in spiritual protection? I do, and perhaps our "face" is the spirit that has been set to guard this site, the keeper of the door *lol*. The design of the carving seems to date it somewhat though in my opinion, and one would also think that there might be some form of history recorded if it was only a couple of hundred years old? Especially considering the importance of history in that area for economic reasons?

I was thinking also that the face is like a shield-shape, a herald as well as heraldry - the message itself is unclear, but the well "belongs" to something or someone. The cap-like shape on the head seems to be either a crown or helment - perhaps denoting the importance of the being. Although we can't see the carved chain on the card, I'm inclined to think of it as a caution (not a threat), to consider carefully what we take from this place and what we leave behind. Wells and springs were thought to have magical properties because of the spirits associated with them, so perhaps it is also symbolic of warding off evil or contamination from the outside world. Wells are also generally fairly deep, with slippery sides - walking through that door alone and accidentally slipping could be detrimental ... taking time out to be alone and contemplate is fine in it's time and place, but we must not withdraw totally from the world - the universe was created for us to enjoy, to live life to the full, and sometimes we can go overboard in withdrawing from it (because of guilt, because we don't know how to get out of what we've gotten ourselves into, because we do not trust ourselves) and miss out on so much. We can get lost in the depth of phylosophies and trying to understand rather than accepting things as they are and moving on.

Quote:
Originally posted by WalesWoman
My more serious thoughts were about frailalty as well, that we make some monumental mistakes and misjudgements all the time when passion and physical desire rule our actions.
Been there - done that ... so I'm also more inclined to forgive him, especially considering that he seems so vulnerable at this time, I can identify with him here.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mooncat2
When I look at it I'm reminded of a mirror, for some reason.
Yes! it's like facing yourself ... your image of yourself and questioning it ... it's something that you have to deal with on your own because no one else can help you become what you want to be. Confronting that image in desparation and saying "what must I do?", "what can I do?"



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Old 07-01-2005     Top   #11
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Quote:
OK Carol, that's not my fault either, just because I've been working through every card in the deck by dreaming about it, starting with the Fool, doesn't mean you have to do it too!
No, it's not, although I've no doubt reading your experiences influenced me towards trying it. Unfortunately, the result has been a little frightening while at the same time I stand in awe of Tarot's power and should perhaps be giving thanks for it's warning. At this moment I'm not sure whether I want to continue working with Legends.



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'And the lives of a man are strung like pearls on the thread of his spirit'............Dion Fortune
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Old 07-01-2005     Top   #12
WalesWoman 
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(((Carole))) If you choose not to work with Legends any longer, just remember...it was just the messenger! I haven't tried to dream the cards consciously or unconsciously, when I have dreamed readings...trying to figure out what one meant...it does seem like the dream helped me put the missing pieces into place. It's the non language, symbolic favorite thing for the right side of the brain to do when the left side is sleeping and isn't there to tell right side to stop playing around...figure out puzzles.

In a sense that finding meaning from dreams is the Hermit too, letting our right brain make sense of what we are unconsiously seeking, without the chatter from the left/logic side arguing with this and that until it is nothing but confusion and chaos. Finding light in the darkness of our sleep, the retreat from our waking time.



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Old 07-01-2005     Top   #13
Lyones 
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Quote:
Originally by Mooncat2
Unfortunately, the result has been a little frightening while at the same time I stand in awe of Tarot's power and should perhaps be giving thanks for it's warning. At this moment I'm not sure whether I want to continue working with Legends.
Hi Carol

We would certainly miss you if you decided not to continue working with Legends and I do not wish to influence your decision either way, but may I just say that I've tried putting these cards under my pillow and haven't dreamed at all (that I can remember). I have the whole deck next to my bed every night and have never had anything like that happen to me. I know that some people do cleansing rituals with their decks, you might like to try that?



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Old 07-01-2005     Top   #14
Sophie-David 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooncat2
No, it's not, although I've no doubt reading your experiences influenced me towards trying it. Unfortunately, the result has been a little frightening while at the same time I stand in awe of Tarot's power and should perhaps be giving thanks for it's warning. At this moment I'm not sure whether I want to continue working with Legends.
Sorry Carol, I was just trying to be funny, I didn't mean anything by it. We each need to approach these tools in our own way. I may find it effective to dream about them, but it doesn't mean that its appropriate for everyone else, and I hope I don't come across that way.

Personally, although I'm OK dreaming about them, I was a bit disturbed when I did my first reading with Majors Only a few days ago. I think it will be OK after I come through some further processess, but I'm not going to read again with them for a while. Must go to work now...



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Old 08-01-2005     Top   #15
mooncat2 
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My apologies, everyone for dumping my personal stuff in the middle of this thread. In hindsight I should perhaps have asked for help instead of just reacting.
Quote:
Sorry Carol, I was just trying to be funny, I didn't mean anything by it.
I know
Quote:
(((Carole))) If you choose not to work with Legends any longer, just remember...it was just the messenger!
Of course you are right, WW, but there are messengers and there are messengers! I'm wondering if my past reluctance to use this deck is because I unconsciously knew how well it was going to work for me. The reading you did for me was unsettling and then it was followed by CreativeFire's this week - I'm so used to worrying about everyone else that it never occurred to me I should be turning the attention to myself - the knowledge hit hard.

Lyones - I'm not going anywhere - nothing is ever achieved by running away. You may not have dreamed - I may never again either - but I still think this deck is powerful. I wonder if you would have written that very beautiful 5 Cups poem for the RW card?

Thank you all for your kind words.



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Old 08-01-2005     Top   #16
Sophie-David 
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Carol, I'm glad you're still with us!

David



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Old 08-01-2005     Top   #17
WalesWoman 
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Maybe I'm more insenstive...dunno, it works for me and am still standing. No matter what you feel you need to do...Carol, I won't try to dissuade you from it. But if there is anything I can do for you...I am PM away.


Now back to the Hermit...I was struck afresh by how stark and lifeless this card is, compared to it's present summer look in the photos. There is greenery, but's it's more mossy...parasitic looking, the roots, symbiosis of the nourishiment from within, the mosses and fungi live on the trees and the trees benifit from the mosses, they need each other, all recycled froms of debris...how leaves fall and decay, and feed the system. All those layers upon layers to create the soil, our reality? Experiences, the things of our lives, we create and nourish. Those roots of old trees old ways, old knowledge, clinging,digging and breaking up the rock beneath it, sending it's shoots into the cracks and the saplings, just beginning to get a purchase and grow. Be it the roots of established knowledge taking root and working their way in to our being or roots to the nature of our situation.

Yet it seems like thorny brambles block the entrance or that gate to discover what lies behind it. So maybe it may make you bleed if you are careless, but they aren't a real hazard, just something to get through. I'd assumed it was Guenivere in her crown and "habit", that cloth thing women used to veil thier heads. Now that I've seen the gate...going thru saints to God's ear? Using a vehicle to find guidance and absolution. And now we have to find the gate keeper!?! Or feel around the door ledge for the key...lift up the light a bit? Stand up? Reveal our unprotected vulnerabilities? Go forth and sin no more?



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Last edited by WalesWoman; 08-01-2005 at 09:31.
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Old 08-01-2005     Top   #18
inanna_tarot 
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From just sitting and staring at this card and your posts, I really feel Lancelot's pain.
I'm getting the idea of someone who is upset, so over works themselves to avoid feeling that upset, till in the end their boss tells them to just leave. Now has to face up to his feelings, his responsibilites and expectations of himself. He feels such deep heart break that his Queen has abandoned him, I dont think he thought she would ever let him go. He feels betrayed that Guenevere doesn't believe he has been tricked. In times like these you feel the only person you can trust is yourself, that you only need you to survive, and thats what Lancelot learns here- what it is to be alone.
Upset at God, for giving him a life and a love he can not fully be truthful about, he rejects the gifts that God has given him ( I mention God because Lancelot was a Christian, so this is his POV). He rejects his place, his useful tasks of chivalry and his loyalty and oaths to the King and the land. He runs off in a temper, and slowly comes to a series of self realisations that he can't be angry at God, that rather than follow up on this destructive love, he is worthy of something better, and when Elaine comes along maybe he sees this as his opportunity. However,on that ledge in the 5 of Cups he realises that he is not in the place God gave him, that although he realises the truth, he has to prove his strength of will to God, to fulfill his deeds and learn to love silently from afar, otherwise he'd drive poor Elaine mad, with jealousy and resentment, which just isnt the place for a child to grow up in - maybe there was some wisdom from the Hermit in his decision after all.

The well seems important, for water is tied to our true emotions, but it also cleanses us, lets us forgive ourselves. I can see Lancelot, on his own now, crying, howling with the pain of all that thats happened, but in realising what hes done he can fix himself. No room to pretense anymore in the woods, survival and deep realisation comes from it. The water isnt present though, showing purification of sin and starting a fresh is far away yet, theres work to be done.

The hermit has a spiritual feeling to it as well, and my first impression from the card was of a painting my (catholic) school teacher would tell me. If someone knows the name or artist of it let me know.
Jesus is standing there, with a lit candle in one hand, his other knocking on a door. He can't open the door, for it is locked and there is no handle on his side. The locks and the handle is only on the other side, your side. Jesus is knocking on your door, the door to your heart, to your soul, polietely knocking, asking to come in. Could Lancelot be knocking on his door, asking himself if he really wants to take this journey into the Shadows of his heart? His could be his own Holy Grail.

This post took a while to collect my thoughts on this crazy character. And I'm sorry Lancelot for giving you a bashing lol.

Glad your still with us Carol,

Sezo
x
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Old 08-01-2005     Top   #19
Sophie-David 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyones
As for the door's age ... rationally I would place it as being fairly recent, as you say 200 years is probable ... however, I'm constantly amazed at how things of antiquity can seem to last forever. You're a spiritually inclined person, do you believe in spiritual protection?
Of objects? I'm not sure, I think so, haven't really thought about it. But I do know that ancient relics are often renewed. I think in the last hundred years or so there's more reluctance to do so, we tend to take doors like this and stick them in museums to preserve them. But in earlier times when these symbols had more intimate significance to the people around them, then they would carefully rebuild a door like this, being as accurate as possible to the original. The image on the door is not very sophisticated and would be fairly easy for anyone with some woodworking skills to copy, you wouldn't have to be a trained artist. So in effect, this door which may only be 200 years old could well be a reincarnation of a very old door indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyones
Although we can't see the carved chain on the card, I'm inclined to think of it as a caution (not a threat), to consider carefully what we take from this place and what we leave behind. Wells and springs were thought to have magical properties because of the spirits associated with them, so perhaps it is also symbolic of warding off evil or contamination from the outside world. Wells are also generally fairly deep, with slippery sides - walking through that door alone and accidentally slipping could be detrimental ... taking time out to be alone and contemplate is fine in it's time and place, but we must not withdraw totally from the world - the universe was created for us to enjoy, to live life to the full, and sometimes we can go overboard in withdrawing from it (because of guilt, because we don't know how to get out of what we've gotten ourselves into, because we do not trust ourselves) and miss out on so much. We can get lost in the depth of phylosophies and trying to understand rather than accepting things as they are and moving on.
Yes, as my mentor says, "Feel and Heal". I think you have a wonderful metaphor there, Lyones, the well with its slippery sides, of the danger of plunging headlong into obscurity and destruction in the unconscious and/or spiritual world. And practically speaking, it is probable that the well door is currently locked both so that it is not a safety hazard and to protect it from vandalism or abuse: or in less prosaic terms, "evil or contamination".



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Old 08-01-2005     Top   #20
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