Why no Jesus?

Splungeman

I was just curious about something...

I understand Waite was a Catholic. Why then, did he not include an image of Jesus in his deck? I've seen a few versions of The World with Jesus in the middle instead of the woman in some other decks.

Anyway...anyone know why Waite wouldn't include an obvious Jesus figure?
 

Rosanne

Hi Splungeman!
In the 'Pictorial Key to Tarot' Waite writes the following.....
The Tarot embodies symbolic presentations of universal ideas, behind which lie the implicits of the human mind, and it is this sense they contain a secret doctrine, which is the realization by the few truths embedded in the consciousness of all.
Waite was a Catholic but he chiefly was an occultist who believed in magical ritual. He seemed to believe that through Tarot and occult ritual one could be spiritually transformed. he also seemed to believe that that Tarot was a mystical text for exactly that transformation (like the mystical alchemists texts that believed in the changing of lead into gold) This view and the Society was not viewed with any credence by the Catholic Church and indeed was frowned upon. Also the prevailing view of occultists, was that Tarot came via Egypt- not Christian at all.
If Jesus was to be portrayed at all it is as the Magician- who Waite says has Christ conciousness via the Leminscate which Gnostics viewed as being linked with Christ. The Society Golden Dawn saw the Magician as Hermes/Mercury. So in many ways I would never have expected to see Jesus depicted in Tarot at all.
~Rosanne
 

Umbrae

Waite was also a Freemason. I don’t remember the name of the declaration (humanus gersomthingorother) that the pope (leo? whatever the number) wrote that created the rift between Freemasons and all Democratic/ Democratic Republic style nations…but there was a rift. There was also this other guy of disreputable repute (is that repetitive?) who wrote a bunch of stuff on the heels of the declaration that enlarged the rift (wish I could recall the name of the book that all this is in…I think it’s A Pilgrims Path or something like that – I have it at home, it’s about the whole rift between churches and Masons.

I ramble.

Waite was real heavy into Freemasonry and its various ancillary degrees. He loved to write degree rituals…

Now in Freemasonry – the foremost thing required…(other than being male – and both Waite and Pixie were Co-Masons which is Freemasonry open to both Men & Women – but is not recognized globally – even though the end result of the teachings are the same) is the belief in one Supreme Being. Which is why it is open to Christians, Jews, Moslems, Hindu (all gods seen as faces of a larger supreme god), and some neo-pagans.

This was what Waite was…

...course this is only based on what I think I've read...I could be wrong...


:cool2:

PS: edited to add: Uh...sorry...just wanted to ask a question here, not related, kinda off topic but I just gotta ask, it being late and all...

You ever seen a snake swallow its tail?
 

Rosanne

tsk tsk Umbrae it is not swallowing its tail- but biting it's tail- like my dog is wont to do! -It enables it to turn in circles- just like the Sun or like the belt that holds your pants up. :D ~Rosanne
 

Splungeman

Actually I HAVE seen an actual snake biting it's own tail at the Marine Education Center in Biloxi, MS. I had no idea of the spiritual/philosophical ramifications at the time...
 

mystic mal

The snake biting its tail is the Ouroboros,both male and female,self impregnating,self feeding,immortal and complete and is in the WORLD card in the Mythic Tarot.

Sorry,we have gone right off the topic of Jesus. I always see him as the Heirophant,sacrificing the beast in himself and just allowing the priest to show.He is the bridge between the human self and the Divine self.
 

frelkins

I read some article recently that argued the Fool was Jesus. In this account (where is that URL?) the Fool should go at the end of the majors and he represents mankind perfected, which is Jesus, who was the perfect man, right?
 

TheMagician

I think it would have been a very touchy subject. From what I understand, the Catholic church is against tarot because it gives us a higher sense of knowledge, beyond what we could perceive on our own. Personally, I believe that if you use it as a tool and don't live your life by it, you should be fine. But, there are some die hards out there who wouldn't appreciate a picture of their savior on something that could potentially be a sin all in itself.
 

StellarMyst

TheMagician said:
I think it would have been a very touchy subject. From what I understand, the Catholic church is against tarot because it gives us a higher sense of knowledge, beyond what we could perceive on our own. Personally, I believe that if you use it as a tool and don't live your life by it, you should be fine. But, there are some die hards out there who wouldn't appreciate a picture of their savior on something that could potentially be a sin all in itself.

:bugeyed:! I see your point, yet the words escape me to respond. You're not wrong to the best of my knowledge. I just had to be *the one in the bunch* that just had to point-out that I am undoubtedly not the only one who has not the words...! ;) :D

~StellarMyst
 

StellarMyst

Umbrae! I thought you smoked on-screen?! hehe! ;) :D

:smoker: