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CBD Tarot de Marseille - new Conver restoration

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Alta's Avatar
Alta  Alta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibor View Post
Could anyone please tell me what is in the LWB that comes with this deck. How detailed it is? Are there any tips on interpreting the pip cards any nice spreads? I really would like to order this deck but I am so indecisive about it since I have the CJ version.
I only got the Hebrew version of the LWB. That may be all there is.
Top   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alta View Post
I only got the Hebrew version of the LWB. That may be all there is.
No - Yoav will email you the English (well, now that I look, I have only two pages - majors and aces....) It is basically meanings, not spreads or tips..
Top   #82
Yoav Ben-Dov  Yoav Ben-Dov is offline
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LWB or not


personaly i don't like LWBs. in my view the magic of the cards is in the images. for this to work, i should look at the cards and let the meaning and the story emerge from the figures, not turn my gaze away and fix my eyes and brain on a list of words in small print. still, i understand that people may need some "grounding" in words to feel confident with a new set of Tarot. so i prepared a "suggested interpretations" text to accompany the cards.

initially i did not plan to sell many decks of this edition of CBD Tarot outside israel, so i made a short interpretation page in hebrew and let people download more detailed texts from my website. this is what i sent initially to people that ordered decks from abroad. then i translated to english a page for the 22+4 cards and sent it with the cards. now i have a 3-pages (A3) text for all the 78, although very condensed, that i put in the decks i send now. for those who didn't get it, and others who may find it useful, here it is in pdf that you can print at home:

http://www.bendov.info/tarot/cbd/cbd-interpret.pdf

for a fuller text - i have just signed a contract with a translator to translate into english a 300 pages book i wrote on the theory and practice of tarot reading using marseille cards (including CBD) and what i call "open reading". i will make the text available in electronic form when ready - a matter of some months. in a short form what the book says is: look at the cards and let them speak to you. let them also teach you how to read them.

i did not want to intervene at this stage in the very interesting discussion about methods of reading which goes on in a different thread, because first i wanted to learn what other people are doing, and also because i still dont have the relevant texts translated. but basically, what i suggest is to start only with a basic spread of 3 cards out of the 22 majors, from left to right, and let the meaning emerge without pre-defining what each position in the spread represents, or what each card symbolises. i learned this from jodorowsky - i know him for almost 30 years now, i never saw him reading in minor suits except for the aces which he uses as psychomagical icons. and with 3 out of of the 22 i saw him changing people's lives, they are that powerful (and so is he as a reader). also i understand that many tarot readers in france do the same - read only with the majors.

unlike jodorowsky i do use the minors sometimes, i feel that if they remained in the deck for centuries there is some reason and purpose to it. my main method is to put them as background behind the 3 majors of the basic spread. so i start at the left (first) position of the spread, take the cards one by one from the shuffled deck, put them on top of each other. when i reach a major card i put it on top of the previous (minor) cards, and pass to the next position. finally there are 3 majors in front of me, with a varying number of minors under them. then i read the minors of each position as a storyboard leading to the major. if there are none, then no story: what you see up front is what there is. if there are many minors, then it is a complex story behind that card. an ace underneath is energy and impetus given to the major card over it, in a direction that corresponds to the suit. many figures are many people involved, or many faces in the situation. etc.

i also believe theat the four groups of cards in the deck should be used in different ways because each has its own graphic language (the 22, the 4, the 16, the 36). so i put them in this order on my deck for the first impression when opening the deck.

for example, sometimes i start reading for people i dont know by putting the 16 court figures exposed, and ask them to choose a card which "speaks to them", and then discuss what they see in the card and why they chose it. then i proceed to a reading of 3 from the 22 majors. the reason is that the 16 are more "human on earth" than the 22, and they fit a projective work like that. with people that i feel are more open, i first let them stare on the "blank frame" card which i put in the deck. it turns out that many times this changes the question they wanted to begin with. a kind of zen exercise.

as i said i hope to have a fuller text ready in a few monthes.

also, for those who think about ordering the CBD deck - i am going to visit temples in south india during the whole of february, so anyway i will not be able to ship any more decks until the beginning of march.

hope you find it useful.
Top   #83
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Thank you Yoav for the very useful information and also for the update about ordering the deck. I will then wait till March and then I might order the deck.
Top   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoav Ben-Dov View Post
my main method is to put them as background behind the 3 majors of the basic spread. so i start at the left (first) position of the spread, take the cards one by one from the shuffled deck, put them on top of each other. when i reach a major card i put it on top of the previous (minor) cards, and pass to the next position. finally there are 3 majors in front of me, with a varying number of minors under them. then i read the minors of each position as a storyboard leading to the major. if there are none, then no story: what you see up front is what there is. if there are many minors, then it is a complex story behind that card.
Thank you so much for this method. Something to try right away!
Top   #85
nemodomi  nemodomi is offline
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Anomaly -- intentional, or error?


Has anyone any idea why the 10 Deniers card in the CBD deck displays seven coins with red centers and three without? I.e., is anyone aware of any historical precedent for this?

http://www.bendov.info/tarot/cbd/gallery/36/d10.html

(The appearance of the actual card in my deck is identical to the photo shown at the above link.)

I've not been able to find online any similar depictions from other decks.

Thanks in advance!
Top   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nemodomi View Post
Has anyone any idea why the 10 Deniers card in the CBD deck displays seven coins with red centers and three without? I.e., is anyone aware of any historical precedent for this?

http://www.bendov.info/tarot/cbd/gallery/36/d10.html

(The appearance of the actual card in my deck is identical to the photo shown at the above link.)

I've not been able to find online any similar depictions from other decks.

Thanks in advance!
Ooh I hadn't noticed that - waiting for Yoav Ben-Dov to answer .

I'm wondering whether it's simply because it's that way in the original Conver deck. I noticed that there's a card in the CBD where one of the flowers has no colour on the bud section (I'll have to go and check which card) and I keep meaning to dig my Heron Conver deck out to see if it's the same there.
Top   #87
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OK, I've checked my Heron Conver which is a facsimile of the deck that's in the Bibliothèque Nationale in Paris. This one: http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/heron-marseilles/

The bits that aren't coloured or appear to be coloured 'wrongly' (I use that term very lightly) in the CBD deck are exactly the same in the Heron deck.
So there is a comma shaped leaf on the 3 of Cups that is white, a flower bud on the 3 of Swords that is white, 3 of the coins in the 10 Deniers card have no red centres etc...

So I think that answers your question nemodomi; those little nuances are there in the 'original' so I suspect that's why they're there in the CBD deck.
Top   #88
nemodomi  nemodomi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulis View Post
OK, I've checked my Heron Conver which is a facsimile of the deck that's in the Bibliothèque Nationale in Paris. This one: http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/heron-marseilles/

The bits that aren't coloured or appear to be coloured 'wrongly' (I use that term very lightly) in the CBD deck are exactly the same in the Heron deck.
So there is a comma shaped leaf on the 3 of Cups that is white, a flower bud on the 3 of Swords that is white, 3 of the coins in the 10 Deniers card have no red centres etc...

So I think that answers your question nemodomi; those little nuances are there in the 'original' so I suspect that's why they're there in the CBD deck.
Thank you Sulis! I appreciate your taking the time to look into this for me.
Top   #89
Yoav Ben-Dov  Yoav Ben-Dov is offline
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thank you sulis for filling up for me while i was away from the connected world! and you are perfectly right. all the "anomalies" (except for my mistakes, certainly there are some) are in the original. as i know nothing about the "real" tarot, i did not try to distinguish between conver's intentions, his errors, and perhaps the sloppiness of the guy who did the actual coloring of this particular copy. i just took everything as i could see it in the heron copy (the oldest that i had available).

i do use the "anomalies" in reading - for example, in the 10 of coins i can see a lot of money (many coins all over), perhaps too much (charged, structured, no place to move and renovate) - but maybe not everyone is getting his equal share. some have something missing.

i do not try to understand "the original meaning" of each such anomaly. i cannot know it, and even if i did - why should i limit myself to the mind-space of somebody who lived hundreds of years ago. but i think there is an intention behind them as a whole. it is too long to explain here in detail - i have a full text on the tarot being translated to english these days, where i also touch these points - but in a nutshell, if you wonder why the marseille/conver cards look more alive and powerful than some new decks, one important element in my opinion is the balance between order/regularity and chaos/anomalies/exceptions. it is the "edge of chaos" which is the mark of life and creative evolution in complex networks theory.

the minor cards have a very regular overall structure. so, the anomalies are essential in giving a "chaos" element to these cards. i can see this intention in the interplay between symmetry and symmetry-breaking - see, for example, the two column heads behind the queen of swords. on first sight you don't notice the difference, but something in the eye perceives it. surely it was done in purpose. there are many more examples like this.

Top   #90




 

 


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