Besançon / Marseille Cards Question

There's a sense in which it is more 'emotionally' satisfying to have as much of the deck in one place than having it spread to the four corners of the globe.

Of course it would be nice to have even one of the cards, to have a sense for a deck of the period... for those of us unable to as yet have procured a full deck (in my own case, a full Besançon deck would have the same value as one or two cards, as it would be 'missing' two important other cards, namely II & V of the Marseille series).

Given my first sentence, however, I would personally prefer to see them sold as a whole.

If you decided to sell them as sub-groups or individually, it would be nice to have a full list as to what is available, so as to be able to choose what to possibly bid for.

http://trionfi.com/01/j/i/gambler_ru/d03437.htm

shows a Guilleaume Mann deck (Animal Tarock), it's from the collection of Sylvia Mann.

Another Tarot Besancon is here from ca. 1920, probably made by older material.

http://trionfi.com/01/j/i/gambler_ru/d03337.htm

I have the two of cups with the inscription above. I just didn't know which one it was till now. If anyone needs a scan, please feel free to ask.

With this and the above info, do we now have a date for these cards? Value?

Click to expand...

I would be interested to show scans of the cards in the Tarot Museum, mentioning you as the sponsor of the pictures. In the case you don't know the Museum, for instance:

http://trionfi.com/0/i/c/ALL-78/

Also I could announce your interest to sell the cards in the Tarot News, if you're interested:

http://trionfi.com/0/n/

To HarryHoudini,
Wow, did you consult Mr Kaplan??

I'd like you NOT to sell the cards individually, either...
For in the future, say 100 years later, there will be
no identifying most of them! (except a few)
I think it's unworthy of this precious "cultural legacy".

To Huck,
Hi
I suppose it's hardly possible that the RENAULT cards
in the Tarot Museum were printed around "1920".
According to Mr Thierry Depaulis, Renault was active
circa 1820-1840. (This is his latest guess.)
And afterwards the woodblocks seem to have been
succeeded by another cardmaker, A.Kirchner.

Incidentally, there's a very interesting point in the
Renault deck in your Museum;
VI "LAMOVREX" has an inscription "FRANCE J JERGER"---
it's the predecessor's of Renault!

kenji said:

To HarryHoudini,
To Huck,
Hi
I suppose it's hardly possible that the RENAULT cards
in the Tarot Museum were printed around "1920".
According to Mr Thierry Depaulis, Renault was active
circa 1820-1840. (This is his latest guess.)
And afterwards the woodblocks seem to have been
succeeded by another cardmaker, A.Kirchner.

Incidentally, there's a very interesting point in the
Renault deck in your Museum;
VI "LAMOVREX" has an inscription "FRANCE J JERGER"---
it's the predecessor's of Renault!

Click to expand...

The note is from Alexander, I don't know nearer conditions, but I'ld assume, that Alexander writes it not without reason.
Probably it's a reproduction, "made from older woodblocks". "Renault" is probably the title of the reproduction (?), but I don't know. And Alexander also notes Jerger as the the earlier card-maker.

Huck said:

The note is from Alexander, I don't know nearer conditions, but I'ld assume, that Alexander writes it not without reason.
Probably it's a reproduction, "made from older woodblocks". "Renault" is probably the title of the reproduction (?), but I don't know. And Alexander also notes Jerger as the the earlier card-maker.

Click to expand...

This is evidently by Renault of Besancon. (as is shown in the 2 of cups)
Mr Alexander Sukhorukov writes, "probably were used the older woodblocs
from J.Jerger."
Yes, it's known that Renault used the same woodblocks as the predecessor
Jean Jerger's.
I think that's what Mr Sukhorukov means.

Judging from the apparent qualities of the cards, they hardly seems to be
reproductions made in the 20th century.
At least I've never heard of such...

Could you ask Mr Sukhorukov about this matter?

Some reproductions are made to look as if they are old .... I assume, that Alexander has perhaps some additional informations (booklet or cartonage?), otherwise ... why should he write 1920 (writing error perhaps ?, mixing 1820 with 1920).
Alexander is not reachable in the moment, as it seems.

Huck said:

otherwise ... why should he write 1920 (writing error perhaps ?, mixing 1820 with 1920).

Click to expand...

I think that's most likely, taking into consideration that a "FRANCE J JERGER"
inscription remains.
(Maybe this deck is an earliest example of Renault tarot, which may have
been printed soon after he succeeded Jerger.)

I guess you are all right. I'll keep them together when I sell. I should do it the next week or so. I'll get back to all your questions in an hour.

I have just read through this fasinating thread.
That cards this old and of such historic merit still show up out of the blue just gives me goose bumps.
I have a question though that hasn't been asked.
How did you get them.
Where do they come from.
Were they in a box you got at an auction?
Just curious.

glad they will be staying together harry.