The Pure Aestetics of the Marseilles - and a bit of a "game"

Moongold said:

What Silvia says is most interesting and I have just been reading about the Ur-Tarot on another thread.

But is this thread about that or has Eco simply asked what we see in these images?

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Part yes and part no..
I really do believe that many of the lovers of the Marseilles do see these levels of history and meaning when they look at the cards.
Unlike me, who simply sees the simplicity and seemingly endless promise in the imagery and yet know so little of what lies behind it all.

Also I feel that if the Tarot de Marseilles truly is the ur-tarot, we should be able to derive the true meanings from the images alone, without constantly getting into the discussions of what part the TdeM holds in the history of Tarot and its development over the centuries.
The images can (and do) speak for themselves and this needs to be pointed out to those who hesitate to take part due to the lengthy dividations on the true meaning of the Marseilles et all.
And THIS was why I called for the Pure Aestetics point of view.

If one sees the history unfold in the images and feels the mists of history spreading about the room, then so be it, for I would not have people write things they do not see or merely parts of them just to please the less deeply immersed minds (of which I consider myself one under the circomstances).

Moongold said:

Respectfullly - just a thought. I would really like to hear what other people "see' in some of these archetypal images.

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As would I.

In line with that, could those of you who see the history, the mists and all of that through the images please refer to a card or a few so we can "see" a tangiable example and have better chance of understanding what it is you speak of?

Major Tom… I expressed myself really bad. Sorry…

When I said Tarot, and the TdM in particular, was certainly not forged in Heaven, I meant something like “no deck was forged in Heaven”. That is why I compared it (in a reverse manner) to the tablets with the Ten Commandments that were given to Moses, meaning that no equivalent set of cards was ever shown to a man, whether by God Himself or by an angel… Of course the concept was “made in Heaven”. Tarot was made in Heaven, and yes, we got it in a burst of divine inspiration – though maybe not in a moment, but as a process. I just wanted to clarify that my view of the TdM, being a TdM lover as I always define myself, does not include a TdM deck being given to someone by a winged messenger of Heaven, with a note saying “this is the Ur-Tarot, the only sacred form of Tarot ever, and should be kept forever untouched in its pristine form”.

My idea about the Ur-Tarot is very close to yours. Quoting myself, from another thread, I would say, “the Ur-Tarot is not a material reality, but a concept. And this by no means lessens it! I don’t think any Ur-phenomenon can be material. I think that when it is materialized, it becomes a demonstration of itself – which is not the same. Here is where I place the TdM: as the more adequate presentation of the Ur-Tarot we have.”

Silvia