Personal Issue with tarot

And in my post, I said that thinking of them as pentacles has added to my understanding of the suit. So does thinking of them as coins. Or stones. Or clocks. Or whatever. This was in response to a suggestion that a potentially objectionable symbol should be erased from the tarot lexicon.

Tarot has developed; their historical meaning is just one facet. A valuable, shining, fundamental facet... but, in the face of modern redrawings, something to be built upon.

Of course, it's all hypothetical. Pentacles aren't going anywhere: RWS is built upon the Western Esoteric tradition, and we're the richer for it. And, the original poster has been answered: the pentacle is not a one-note symbol and, if it proves to be an immutable issue, other decks provide suitable alternatives.

I'm with philebus on this. We all make choices about what imagery to use when we choose a deck. If pents create dissonence in your mind, then don't use them. Use a deck that speaks to you, whatever that means. We don't all have to use the Rider-Smith-Waite deck. We don't all have to use an older form. We can use any form that works for us.

I use tarot as a meditative practice. A way to get in touch with my own feelings, desires, ideas for moving forward. A growth tool, in other words. Not a predictive tool. As such, if there were an image that really bothered me, I might choose to investigate why at some point. But it's my choice as to when, or ever, to explore that particular issue.

As an example, I prefer a deck with no, or little, nudity. Personal choice here. Could I explore why? Of course, and I do sometimes. But I still prefer a deck with no nudity.

I also find it very difficult to work with a deck that has what I consider poor artwork in it. As an artist I find it jarring. So I avoid decks whose artwork doesn't speak to me.

With all the thousands of decks out there, I don't think any of us could explore all of them in detail, and certainly not all the bazillions of potential images.

To midamah ... buy a deck that sings for you! Buy images that stir your imagination! Take joy in it, as a tool for your own growth, or for whatever you feel you need out of it.

Hugs and best of luck to you as you explore your tarot journey!

Chiming in. I think it's great that you shared your feelings with us. I think it is perfectly normal to come to tarot with certain pre-conceived ideas. There's a lot of garbage out there that influences us and our perceptions of things. I think what is important is that you recognize that, and just keep am open mind as you continue to use your cards. For now, you can find a deck that appeals to you for where you are now. As your relationship with tarot grows, I've no doubt that you'll get past your feelings of the pentacle. As many have already shared with you, there is nothing to fear with this symbol.

Tarot is such a positive and enlightening tool. What's important right now is that you are comfortable with the images on your cards, so that you'll want to use them and get to know them better. We all have our likes and dislikes, and this can influence how we feel about using our decks.

No worries, questioning things is how you learn.

Hello. In my understanding, the pentacle has been an important symbol of Manifestation in many cultures & spiritual traditions since time immemorial. Hence its association with the earth suite - material reality.
(I find it hard to see why 'fundamentalists' keep struggling to convince themselves & others that things they don't understand or know about are 'evil'.)
Manifestation in the physical world is therefore associated with earth.

I see the pentacle as representing the 4 traditional (& alchemical) elements of Earth, Air, Fire & Water, from which everything is made; as do the Tarot suites themselves.
They represent, in us, our bodies, minds, wills & feelings respectively ... our physical, mental, spiritual & emotional faculties - in that order.

The 5th point at the top of the pentacle star represents Spirit ... the Divine spark of Life Itself ... 'God's breath in Adam's nostrils' in Christian terms ... that extra, animating principle that makes Adam (i.e. us all) a 'living soul.'

No 'devils', no superstitions, no problem.

Originally Posted by AJ
It is a big issue with me, I complain about it every chance I get.

midamah said:

About using tarot?

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about pentacles being used willynilly on decks that have zero to do with anything remotely related to the word.
It's the equivilant to suddenly paintings only use square clouds. WHY?

As I understand it (and I may be wrong...)...

The original suits are Swords, Wands, Cups/Chalices, and Coins.

A.E. Waite, mistranslated Lévi's works and thus the word Pentagram became more or less invented. (ETA: He didn't invent the word, but in error - attributed it to the suit of coins)

Of course my errors will be corrected, but Waite frankly was not the sharpest knife in the drawer, nor was Mathers who also did horrid translations.

This all occurred around the turn of the last century, during the final days of the Victorian Era when mistranslations, and plagiarism were far more common than today.

With the dawn of the twentieth century folks began assuming that the pentagram was satanic or black magic oriented.

If you look at the pentagram, if the star has two points up – the center of the star holds a perfect man (insert the Vitruvian Man – he fits), if the star has one point up, the inner pentagram is upside down. So you could focus on the star, or the center pentagram and make up your own reasoning behind it.

Historically the pentagram dates way back to the days of Pythagoras, and is said to be a symbol of his followers, because the star produces Phi (which defines the golden ratio).

For more information, please seek out a copy of “A Wicked Pack of Cards” (and find the real history of this thing we call Tarot).

DaisyDragonfly said:

This was in response to a suggestion that a potentially objectionable symbol should be erased from the tarot lexicon.

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Exactly.

I read it that way too.

I still think that it would be problematic to not use some symbols in tarot generally because of certain associations.

ETA: And in some contexts I do prefer Coins, in other Pentacles

If it offends you or frightens you, don't use it. And in fact, there are plenty of oracle decks out there that would be useful. Tarot isn't the only oracular resource open to you. Doreen Virtue has authored dozens of decks. Try searching her name in the decks section of Aeclectic. I'm sure you'd find something to your taste.

DaisyDragonfly said:

Trouble is, you then remove the wanted association. I see a pentagram, and I think of safety, protection, shields and wards. It reminds me of balance, of honoring spirit at the same time as protecting the way the power of the four elements manifest in my daily life. 'Coins' - though valuable in a different way - present an entirely different set of references. I don't want just one or the other; I want both, because it develops my understanding of the earth suit. (I also like the clocks of the Victoria Regina, because it reminds me that time is another aspect of earth).

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I would agree if the pentacle was fundamental to the Tarot. But it isn't. It is fundamental to the Waite Tarot. The Tarot didn't have Pentacles before Waite.

You pointed out; the pentacle has meaning to you. So you will obviously choose decks that have a pentacle. Just like you can, and probably do get decks imbued with imagery that is meaningful to you and that is not only OK, it is expected. In the same way, midamah can get a deck without the imagery that has unwanted meaning to her.

Personally, I wanted a primary deck without pentacles as well. But for the reasons I mentioned, not really midamah's reasons. I view the pentacle as an arbitrary attribution to the Tarot, not a meaningful one. I also view the inversion of Justice and Strength (another Waite contribution) the same way, so I prefer decks with those cards switched back. (Although I don't look for that, it is just a very minor preference not a requirement in any way.)

I agree with the people who make arguments about not removing the pentacle from the deck because I can't stand it when people remove meaningful symbolism or historical connections only for the sake of removing them. But I don't think the pentacle is such a case, it provides only peripheral meaning at best. In my opinion, it is no different than someone wanting a deck without blatant sexuality, which also isn't fundamental to the Tarot. Personally, I have no problem with the pentacle, sexuality, or satanism for that matter. So I will own decks with that imagery, if I like them but I also don't want that stuff in my primary deck so there is less I have to explain (unnecessarily) and the imagery is more acceptable to people I may read for (I also have friends with Christian views).


[Edited to add:]

philebus said:

Such aspects and associations have been introduced into tarot because people wanted them there - in modern packs I have seen suit signs of any number of things, be they butterflies or pepper pots. If someone chooses coins over pentacles, they are simply choosing one set of associations over another. It is not hiding or losing anything, it is just a preference.

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Exactly. My post (above) is fairly redundant considering philebus said it much better.

JSNYC said:

But I don't think the pentacle is such a case, it provides only peripheral meaning at best.

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I disagree. TdM isn't the only tarot anymore. And, I've got to say, dismissing it as 'peripheral meaning' dismisses a profound concept that has added to the tarot.

But, of course, I'm talking about all tarot, not just TdM tarot; and all tarot-users, not just historical tarot users. So I suspect we'll continue to disagree.

However, it's a moot point. As I said above, the original poster's query has been answered. Other decks exist, and the suit of earth is represented in a variety of ways. Individuals can pick the representation that most suits them, their worldview and their reading audience.