Geometric Shapes on Sword Minors.

thinbuddha

Reverse reasoning? Naw- this is the swords suit. AC would be the first to tell you that this is the suit related to the element of air. If the wings are related to the movement of air, then they should be on every card- not reverse reasoning in my book. But like I said, I'm not defending this theory to my grave...

The idea about the magic squares being a mental trick to pull off (and thus suited to this suit) is interesting. I guess that I might expect to see something similar somewhere on the majors. (maybe VIII)

But what do these squares signify? I really don't know anything about this. Are they supposed to be something that you or I could interpret, given enough time? Or is it more of a spell that will work it's way into us subconsciously (or magically)?

If they are magic squares, I guess I would expect them each to have some significance beyond the fact that they are hard to make and there. I guess I would also expect that if this is true, there could be magic squares that would fit on the other suits because of their special meaning.... So I guess I'm saying that I'm not sold on this theory either. It raises too many questions.

And really- the idea that Crowley was looking over her shoulder every step of the way would be a lot easier to buy if it wasn't for the "abracadabra" on the chariot among other "mistakes". How would he let that mistake pass (on a trump!) if he was so carefully monitoring every step of the process? Unless it's not a mistake....
 

ravenest

thinbuddha said:
Reverse reasoning? Naw- this is the swords suit. AC would be the first to tell you that this is the suit related to the element of air. If the wings are related to the movement of air, then they should be on every card- not reverse reasoning in my book. But like I said, I'm not defending this theory to my grave...
Oh, there I go again, not making it clear ... what I mean is;
The shapes appear on all the sword minors. These shapes do not look like wings (well they dont, to me), lets just call them shapes for now.
If there are wings on the courts they are stylized with the shapes. To look at the shapes on the minors and call them wings because the 'wings' on the courts are stylized with the shape design is the part I am calling reverse reasoning. Am I making sense now?
Thinbuddha said:
on the idea about the magic squares being a mental trick to pull off (and thus suited to this suit) is interesting. I guess that I might expect to see something similar somewhere on the majors. (maybe VIII)

Well, not really. The majors are on a different plane, each suit has a specific background, cups usually has a water background, ocean, wave, pond, etc. wands seem to mostly have a blank or plain background or energetic / fiery background (as in the two), discs have solid backgrounds, cogs, mountains, hills, plants (if that's what it is in the 7?). Swords have diagrams which seem to represent mathmatical / geometric designs. Where are the ponds and lakes and oceans in the Trumps? Where are the cogs and mountains and hills in the Trumps?
Thinbuddha said:
But what do these squares signify? I really don't know anything about this. Are they supposed to be something that you or I could interpret, given enough time? Or is it more of a spell that will work it's way into us subconsciously (or magically)?

Have you seen my thread on magic squares in Spirituality forum?
Thinbuddha said:
If they are magic squares, I guess I would expect them each to have some significance beyond the fact that they are hard to make and there. I guess I would also expect that if this is true, there could be magic squares that would fit on the other suits because of their special meaning.... So I guess I'm saying that I'm not sold on this theory either. It raises too many questions.

The significance is that they (especially in their construction) stimulate mental activity. They dont have any 'meaning' as such, beyond this so there is no meaning appropriate to other suits.

Thinbuddha said:
And really- the idea that Crowley was looking over her shoulder every step of the way would be a lot easier to buy if it wasn't for the "abracadabra" on the chariot among other "mistakes". How would he let that mistake pass (on a trump!) if he was so carefully monitoring every step of the process? Unless it's not a mistake....

Well, like I said above LOOK AT the intro frontpiece to the Book of Thoth where this process is described.

He probably let it pass because I am looking at my Chariot right now and I cant see 'abracadabra' anywhere on it either ???
Where, wot, huh? Am I missing something here?
 

Tuwikaa

Look at the top of the card (Chariot), in the blue just above the crab, see it now? At a glance it looks like something ornate, a snake like motif.
 

ravenest

Tuwikaa said:
Look at the top of the card (Chariot), in the blue just above the crab, see it now? .

Nope. My deck is very old and worn, cant make it out. I will check on a newer one when I go to my friends place.

But it has bought up that old question I have. How did abraCadabra get into stage magic? And all that other paraody stuff they do too?
 

ravenest

thinbuddha said:
And really- the idea that Crowley was looking over her shoulder every step of the way would be a lot easier to buy if ....


Frieda enters drawing room laden down with bags of shopping.
F; "Good Lord! It's hell out there!"

Aleister sitting at table with books, drawing paper and drawing instruments; "Mmmmmm..."

F; 'I got the scotch sausage, anchovies, kippers, oysters and cigars but not the caviar, it was too expensive."

A; "Mmmmmm ..."

F; "It's out of season, you know?"

A; " Mmmmm ..."

F; "Yes, apparently its all due to the invasion, they pulled the plug on Norway and it sank right to the bottom of the sea, scared all the Russian sturgeon and now they wont lay."

A; "Mmmmmm ..."

F; (Shouting) "You haven't heard a word I said have you?"

A; Looks up, "Eh, What?"

F; "You look like a little schoolboy, sitting there with your paper and pencils and compass and protractor. What's that book?"

A; Holds up book, " 'Letters and Papers on Philospohical Subjects by Benjamin Franklin. LL.D.,F.R.S.' Look at these squares ... brilliant, absolutly brilliant! And if you draw a line through each consecutive number you get these very interesting patterns, look ..." A. fumbles some loose sheets of scribbles and patterns " ...see this star like mandala? That's actually a visual representation of 1+2+3+...etc, that is, to n; the last number in the series, over n equals n over 2 times n squared plus one! and this one shows Pi to 37 places, but reversed and when you only link the odd consecutive numbers in reverse ..."

F; "Yes, fascinating - I'm sure - can I have the money for the shopping now please?"

A; Looks at watch "Good Lord! Is that the time? I have to run!"

F; "But you were supposed to help with the sword suit backgrounds today, you cant just run off!"

A; Stuffs the sheets in Frieda's hand, "Just use these, change them how you want, you know, artistic license and all that, I'm sure you'll do a wonderfull job." He rushes towards the door.

F; "The shopping money, when do I get it back."

A; "The publisher has promised me a check next week." He goes out.

F; "Dhooough!"
 

Tuwikaa

Abracadabra

Abrahadabra: A rewriting of the famous magical word Abracadabra by Aleister Crowley. This places the name “Had,” a short form of the Egyptian Hadith that, according to some sources, represents Horus of Behedet, an area in Egypt. Hadith is the second person of the Thelemic trinity. Crowley believed it was the Word of the Aeon. One aspect of this is that it has eleven letters, thus linking the symbol of humanity, the pentagram (five identical letters) with the number of God, the hexagram, (six diverse letters). It therefore represents the Great Work of personal spiritual development.
source: Donald Michael Kraig


Abracadabra: A traditional word of power, used by Western magicians from classical times to the present. Written in the falling way, it was used in talismans to cure fevers and asthma:

ABRACADABRA
ABRACADABR
ABRACADAB
ABRACADA
ABRACAD
ABRACA
ABRAC
ABRA
ABR
AB
A

In recent times, Abracadabra has mostly been used by stage magicians. English mage Aleister Crowley (1875-1947) altered the spelling to make it fit his new magical religion of Thelema, and in this new form the word has been much used in the Thelemite community; see Abrahadabra.
source: The New Encyclopedia of the Occult, John Michael Greer (Llewellyn Publications)

Some, including mystic occultist Aleister Crowley, believed the word to be related to the Gnostic God Abraxas. Crowley "corrected" the spelling to Abrahadabra, in order to achieve a particular gematric value.


Abracadabra spell

Pronunciation: ab-brah-cad-ab-brah • (noun)

Alternate Spellings: Abrahadabra, Abrakala
 

Aeon418

thinbuddha said:
And really- the idea that Crowley was looking over her shoulder every step of the way would be a lot easier to buy if it wasn't for the "abracadabra" on the chariot among other "mistakes". How would he let that mistake pass (on a trump!) if he was so carefully monitoring every step of the process? Unless it's not a mistake....
From a letter from Harris to Crowey dated Sunday May 11th 1941:
The alteration of Abracadabra (Charioteer) & the Taurus Disk card are complete.
By 1941 Crowley had been using "Abrahadabra" for almost 40 years! Did he suddenly forget this and give Harris the wrong word? ;)

From a letter by Crowley:
The cards are not to be sold without the book.

If the book can be printed without illustrations it need not cost more than [L]300.

If Lady Harris likes, she can give it away with the cards, I do not want any money out of it: and she can say she wrote it, I don't care.

But I will not allow the cards to be issued so that they can be used only for gambling or fortune-telling.
Moral of the story: if you want to know the intended meaning of the symbolism in the cards you the need the Book of Thoth too. ;)
 

Tuwikaa

I agree, The Book Of Thoth, is a must for this deck, but difficult to decipher.
 

Lillie

To be honest i can't be botherd to read the whole thread. It's 2.00 AM, and I'm off to my pit in a minuite.

Also, tonight we had the last episodes of Lost (season 2) and yes, I know 3 starts next week across the pond, I'm jealous and I don't want to hear about it. So I have better things to think about right now.

But anyway.
Demons. I heard the sqiggles were the symbols of demons and angels and stuff like that.
And as I have seen stuff like that in od grimoirs, like the key of Solomon and stuff, it wouldn't surprise me.

The demon/angel/whatever that is the ruler of that card.

Has that been mentioned yet?
If it has, just ignore me.
 

Bat Chicken

I agree, The Book Of Thoth, is a must for this deck, but difficult to decipher.

I second that... Not to mention the fact that the Abrahadabra issue requires two others books as footnoted in the Book of Thoth and and entire volume of its own according to Crowley.....