TarotL Tarot History Information Sheet

It's been a number of years since that Information Sheet has been prepared. I take it that there may have been further developments in tarot history scholarship since then. What paragraphs of that Information Sheet would you, if you were the editors of that Information Sheet, revise? And if so, what would your revisions be?

Thanks for any replies.

P.S.: You can view that Information Sheet at:

http://www.villarevak.org/misc/tarotl_1.html

or at:

http://www.tarothermit.com/infosheet.htm

Good to revisit that occasionally...

Those generalities seem to have held up pretty well over the past few years. Doesn't seem the document would mislead anyone. Hard to refine the points any further, without quibbling over details and emphasis.

I would certainly add a link to trionfi.com - all of the documents concerning the earliest history (first 20-30 years) of trionfi cards are there, and nowhere else.

But I'll think about it a little more...

Ross

I tend to generally agree with Ross - the smaller points being, of course, more important for some of us.

In that sense, it reflects well the collaborators of that useful sheet, and both their style and sense for what to address - as any collaborative effort is bound to have.

Since the sheet was produced, what has principally changed is the greater general availability of more general information, and the sense that what may have been important then to address may have shifted a little in focus.

Of course, if a number of people here were to produce an equivalent sheet, though it would also resound with historical correctness in turns of what may currently be available, its tone - as that document's - would also reflect the individuals concerned...

Tarot Information Sheet

####TOPIC: THE TIME AND PLACE OF THE ORIGINS OF THE TAROT

Inaccurate: The tarot comes from Egypt; India; China; Fez, Morocco; the Sufis; the Cathars; Jewish Kabbalists or Moses; or the origin of the tarot is unknown.

Current Historical Understanding: The tarot originated in northern Italy early in the 15th century (1420-1440). There is no evidence for it originating in any other time or place. The earliest extant cards are lavish hand-painted decks from the courts of the nobility [see illustration, above].

#####

The time of origin depends on, what one means with Tarot. If you think of a 4x14 + 22 - deck, then there is NO EVIDENCE at all in 1420 - 1440.
If you accept the Michelino deck as Tarot, 16 gods+ some smaller cards in unclear number and as suits birds, 1417 - 1425 would be correct.
When you don't accept the Michelino deck, but a 5x14-deck or 5x16-deck with unkown motifs with "correct" suits, then "there is no evidence before February 1442 or (perhaps) 1.1.1441" is correct.
When you don't accept a deck as being Tarot without 22 special carrds, then you've "no evidence before the Boiardo poem"

If you demand also the "right motifs", then there is no evidence before the list of the unknown preacher.

When you also demand the "right numerology", you've a problem.

"(1420 - 1440)" is only estimation, it hides, that there is no positive information before the above mentioned dates. With the same right you could say 1380 - 1440.

#### TOPIC: THE ORIGIN OF THE WORD “TAROT”

Inaccurate: The word is Egyptian, Hebrew, or Latin; it is an anagram; it holds the key to the mystery of the cards.

Current Historical Understanding: The earliest names for the tarot are all Italian. Originally the cards were called carte da trionfi (cards of the triumphs). Around 1530 (about 100 years after the origin of the cards), the word tarocchi (singular tarocco) begins to be used to distinguish them from a new game of triumphs or trumps then being played with ordinary playing cards. The etymology of this new word is not known. The German form is tarock, the French form is tarot. Even if the etymology were known, it would probably not tell us much about the idea behind the cards, since it only came into use 100 years after they first appeared. ####

The use of the word Tarocchi and Taraux is proven for the year 1505 in two cases, one for Italy, one for France. Before that date a use is unknown.



### TOPIC: RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN TAROT AND ORDINARY PLAYING CARDS

Inaccurate: The 52-card deck evolved from the tarot, leaving the Joker as the only remnant of the major arcana.

Current Historical Understanding: Playing cards came to Europe from Islam, probably via Muslim Spain, about 50 years before the development of tarot. ###

"About 50 years" is questionable, suggesting another answer to the first question above.
The second part of the sentence: Playing cards appeared in China much earlier then in Europe, and were probably transported by Mongolians to the west.

###They appeared quite suddenly in many different European cities between 1375 and 1378. ###

Bern 1367 seems to be confirmed, earlier appearances are not impossible. "It spread probably in larger quantities since 1377 or little earlier in various cities of Europe," seems to be a correct sentence.

### European playing cards were an adaptation of the Islamic Mamluk cards. These early cards had suits of cups, swords, coins, and polo sticks (seen by Europeans as staves), and courts consisting of a king and two male underlings. The tarot adds the Fool, the trumps, and a set of queens to this system. ###

The queens were at least added before Tarot. Already Johannes of Rheinfelden (1377) knew Queens. Not the tarot added them.

###Some time before 1480, the French introduced cards with the now-familiar suits of hearts, clubs, spades, and diamonds. The earlier suits are still preserved in the tarot and in Italian and Spanish playing cards.###

The suits, that Johannes (1377) in his 60-card-deck described, are not like the Italian suits. It is also possible, that the Italians learned their suits by later influences, though, such a development is not necessarily likely.

I know the cards themselves showed up at a particular time, does anyone know if the card images are portrayed in Medieval paintings anywhere BEFORE that? Just curious. The rich people tended to have the paintings made for them (or sponsored the artists), and they'd be most likely to also have the decks. The two seem to be able to go hand in hand. I've only heard of one mural that was painted with tarot cards on it. I know there has to be more!

All of the individual images appeared in various parts, and in particular variations, in various places (including Cathedral carvings - except, so far as I have been able to find, for the Hanged Man).

There is a difference, however (or at least as many argue), between, as you point out, cards and imagery.

Here, of course, we are referring to the Atouts or Major Arcana - the pips were around in the form of Mamluk decks...

HudsonGray said:

I know the cards themselves showed up at a particular time, does anyone know if the card images are portrayed in Medieval paintings anywhere BEFORE that? Just curious. The rich people tended to have the paintings made for them (or sponsored the artists), and they'd be most likely to also have the decks. The two seem to be able to go hand in hand. I've only heard of one mural that was painted with tarot cards on it. I know there has to be more!

Click to expand...

I wonder if you mean the fresco traditionally called "The Tarocchi Players" in the Casa Borromeo, Milan?

http://www.villarevak.org/g_his/xva_tp.jpg

Here it is in context -
http://home.pacbell.net/mkgreer/TarotTour.html

It is usually dated at the earliest around 1440. There is no evidence of tarot trumps in the picture, but the cards are large. An earlier photograph, presented by Kaplan in volume II of the Encyclopedia, seems to show the Two of Coins and Ace of Coins.

There are a few other places where nobility are shown playing cards, but this is the earliest.

Ross

Neat picture, but that wasn't the one. The image I saw had two people using tarot in the middle of a table, and more people on the left, and over on the right was a woman getting into a fight with one of two guys (looked serious) as the other guy was trying to help his friend. There was a card or two on the long table & you could see a bit more of the cards in one guy's hand I think. The mural was longer than it was high, and was pretty old (before 1600).

HudsonGray said:

Neat picture, but that wasn't the one. The image I saw had two people using tarot in the middle of a table, and more people on the left, and over on the right was a woman getting into a fight with one of two guys (looked serious) as the other guy was trying to help his friend. There was a card or two on the long table & you could see a bit more of the cards in one guy's hand I think. The mural was longer than it was high, and was pretty old (before 1600).

Click to expand...

This sounds like the Issogne Castle fresco, discussed by Kaplan in vol. II, p. 3. According to Kaplan it would have been painted by Giacomo Jacquerio between 1415 and 1453. I have a good image of this -

http://www.angelfire.com/space/tarot/issogne.html

detail at:

http://www.angelfire.com/space/tarot/issognedetail.html

You can see it is a lively and charming scene of people playing various games on a long table. Most are drinking, and there is a fight at the end of the table.

The middle group is drinking, and it appears that the man at the back of the table is resting his hand on a pack of cards. No other cards appear in the picture. It is not clear that they are tarocchi cards.

Ross

Re: Tarot Information Sheet

Huck said:

####TOPIC: THE TIME AND PLACE OF THE ORIGINS OF THE TAROT

Inaccurate: The tarot comes from Egypt; India; China; Fez, Morocco; the Sufis; the Cathars; Jewish Kabbalists or Moses; or the origin of the tarot is unknown.

Current Historical Understanding: The tarot originated in northern Italy early in the 15th century (1420-1440). There is no evidence for it originating in any other time or place. The earliest extant cards are lavish hand-painted decks from the courts of the nobility [see illustration, above].

#####

The time of origin depends on, what one means with Tarot. If you think of a 4x14 + 22 - deck, then there is NO EVIDENCE at all in 1420 - 1440.
If you accept the Michelino deck as Tarot, 16 gods+ some smaller cards in unclear number and as suits birds, 1417 - 1425 would be correct.
When you don't accept the Michelino deck, but a 5x14-deck or 5x16-deck with unkown motifs with "correct" suits, then "there is no evidence before February 1442 or (perhaps) 1.1.1441" is correct.
When you don't accept a deck as being Tarot without 22 special carrds, then you've "no evidence before the Boiardo poem"

If you demand also the "right motifs", then there is no evidence before the list of the unknown preacher.

When you also demand the "right numerology", you've a problem.

"(1420 - 1440)" is only estimation, it hides, that there is no positive information before the above mentioned dates. With the same right you could say 1380 - 1440.

#### TOPIC: THE ORIGIN OF THE WORD “TAROT”

Inaccurate: The word is Egyptian, Hebrew, or Latin; it is an anagram; it holds the key to the mystery of the cards.

Current Historical Understanding: The earliest names for the tarot are all Italian. Originally the cards were called carte da trionfi (cards of the triumphs). Around 1530 (about 100 years after the origin of the cards), the word tarocchi (singular tarocco) begins to be used to distinguish them from a new game of triumphs or trumps then being played with ordinary playing cards. The etymology of this new word is not known. The German form is tarock, the French form is tarot. Even if the etymology were known, it would probably not tell us much about the idea behind the cards, since it only came into use 100 years after they first appeared. ####

The use of the word Tarocchi and Taraux is proven for the year 1505 in two cases, one for Italy, one for France. Before that date a use is unknown.



### TOPIC: RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN TAROT AND ORDINARY PLAYING CARDS

Inaccurate: The 52-card deck evolved from the tarot, leaving the Joker as the only remnant of the major arcana.

Current Historical Understanding: Playing cards came to Europe from Islam, probably via Muslim Spain, about 50 years before the development of tarot. ###

"About 50 years" is questionable, suggesting another answer to the first question above.
The second part of the sentence: Playing cards appeared in China much earlier then in Europe, and were probably transported by Mongolians to the west.

###They appeared quite suddenly in many different European cities between 1375 and 1378. ###

Bern 1367 seems to be confirmed, earlier appearances are not impossible. "It spread probably in larger quantities since 1377 or little earlier in various cities of Europe," seems to be a correct sentence.

### European playing cards were an adaptation of the Islamic Mamluk cards. These early cards had suits of cups, swords, coins, and polo sticks (seen by Europeans as staves), and courts consisting of a king and two male underlings. The tarot adds the Fool, the trumps, and a set of queens to this system. ###

The queens were at least added before Tarot. Already Johannes of Rheinfelden (1377) knew Queens. Not the tarot added them.

###Some time before 1480, the French introduced cards with the now-familiar suits of hearts, clubs, spades, and diamonds. The earlier suits are still preserved in the tarot and in Italian and Spanish playing cards.###

The suits, that Johannes (1377) in his 60-card-deck described, are not like the Italian suits. It is also possible, that the Italians learned their suits by later influences, though, such a development is not necessarily likely.

Click to expand...

Hi all,

Laurent Edouard has translated in French the document of TarotL and it is now available at :
http://www.lejournaldedemain.com/article.php3?id_article=747

He is actually working on Huck's comments and will translate them for publication in the following weeks.

Alain