Which of the modern decks has more historical authenticity?

-delete-

fyreflye said:

And of course each claims that his version is the "véritable" one. The greatest virtue of the Wirth deck is that nobody has yet tried to "restore" it.

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There is a version that is quite dreadful. And that is the USGames one. It even has minor arcana attached to it.

And there is another Tarot designer who RECOLOURED the Wirth deck! I refuse even to give a link to that one....

Diana said:

There is a version that is quite dreadful. And that is the USGames one. It even has minor arcana attached to it.

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Are the majors in that USGames version acceptable, or have they been altered?

Undergraduatenick, your project sounds fascinating and so involving.

Astraea said:

Are the majors in that USGames version acceptable, or have they been altered?

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Their are details that have been altered. All one needs to do is read Wirth's book to see this. Mainly it is the colours. But they are not TOO awful. It's just an awful shame.

fyreflye said:

The problem I see with the use of the Marseille for your project is that every version of the Marseille deck is different, at least in coloration, and also in some minor details like the plants growing near Le Bataleur's feet and the number of doors in the Tower. Marseille enthusiasts tend to take these minor differences quite seriously, leaving us with a dozen different "Marseilles" and as many different interpretations. And of course each claims that his version is the "véritable" one. The greatest virtue of the Wirth deck is that nobody has yet tried to "restore" it.

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I like there being so many variations - like the variations in a ballad or a fairy tale. Tarot is the hermetic equivalent of a folk tale, so it's hardly surprising that it should have spawned variations. It's fun looking at the different emphases on this or that symbol, the colour changes often mean some interesting additions or variants in interpretations. The second face on the Diable's stomach , for example, which was omitted in the Conver version on which the Marteau is based, but exists in older versions - these cards show an evolution in how the devil and our shadow side was perceived in the 18th century: grotesque and illogical in the early part of the century, more reasonable and human-looking later on. Both are recognisably Le Diable, both have a symbolic charge, but there is a subtle difference in tone and therefore in experience when looking at these different Diables. The Enlightenment had done its work...

However, I believe the basic interpetation of the arcana remain the same in all versions, and even between a TdM and one of its cousins.

Diana said:

Their are details that have been altered. All one needs to do is read Wirth's book to see this. Mainly it is the colours.

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Thanks, Diana. I don't know why card publishers change the authors' original work.

No Substitute

Astraea said:

Are the majors in that USGames version acceptable, or have they been altered?

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If you follow this link, and then click on each image,
you can then "save" on your computer a file of the
complete 22 original Oswald Wirth Tarot cards:

http://www.chez.com/alkast/wirth_jeu_1927.html

Viewing them on screen is altogether wonderful, but
the back, a pleasant art nouveau pastel, is not shown.

Fulgour, thank you so much! That is a wonderful suggestion. The cards are so beautiful and alive. Much appreciation.

Irene Gad's new book has Wirth illustrations

and I noticed that she has some Marseilles discussion.

Her meanings for cards and ideas are aiming at the Jungian joy of comparative allegories from many places in historical thought. She wrote in the forward that she believes that today's painters and writers are the true alchemists of the imagination that make gold from dross...

Might be nice for those who would like to pull Wirthian designs forward into their contemporary ideas.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0892541105/ref=nosim/aeclectic/

Cerulean

fyreflye said:

I've recently completed a study of Joseph Maxwell's book, The Tarot, and concluded that he was using the original 1760 Conver deck for the elaboration of his perceived color, numerological and image symbolism in the Marseille. That book can be found used and cheap everywhere, and the Héron or Le Scarabeo reprints of the 1760 deck are readily available.

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hi fyreflye,

I don't have the Maxwell book. Did you happen to determine which particular Conver version's colours were used by Maxwell? Like the one photoreproduced in the Héron? or in the Lo Scarabeo? other?

Thanks.