Baroque Bohemian Cats Tarot

But if you look on the left, the half circles there are reminiscent of Yin Yang symbols broken into halves.

I thought it was the Hermit too, till I looked closer, there's two cups there. I think it fools us because the figure is turned to the side & you see it in profile. Though it's facing the wrong way (generally) for the Hermit.

Actually I thought the dress was pretty simple, especially for the Baroque period. They didn't play around all that much with the Grecian forms at that point in time.
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I just took another look. The Temperance figure in the background is pouring vertically from one cup into another, which is more realistic than most Temperance pictures that I've seen. (Baba, your cats must all have polydactyl thumbs to hold the things in their paws! Ha!).

The only thing that seems too much on the card is the yellow flowers taking up so much room on the bottom left. Would it look better balanced if they were lowered down about half, so they didn't block the figure, or the yellow was changed to something more muted? Or cat tails were used instead (do you have those growing over there? Maybe rushes or reeds, horsetails, or some water plant). Or, if water gardening was popular, water lilies floating in a wide topped planter? There's a tiny bit of water down at the bottom, I see.

The background in the 6 of Cups, it reminds me of the Wild West for some reason. I think it's the red & white structure. I associate it with barns & such (I'm from dairy country myself, though most of the barns around here have been painted white over the last few decades).

I've never quite understood the artistic premise behind Temperance, so I have to watch out generally when I make comments so they don't sound like sour grapes.

Immediately after I got over the sheer beauty of the card, and noticed the wings, my thought was "well, it's traditional, I suppose", and didn't worry about it. Then I looked at the comments, and I do have one.

Combining baroque with "stark" may in fact be an impossible problem, but if you can figure out a way to do it, I think it would enhance the overall meaning of the card. (The worst part of this is that I don't have any picture at all of what I mean here. Rats. I hate people who don't know what they want when they ask for changes.)

Karen,
I am nearly worthless when it comes to constructive criticism of these cards. By the time I even think about what could be changed, I have enjoyed looking at the kitty and the costume and all of the background detail and wouldn't change a thing.
I like the half-and-half face for the Temperance kitty.

None of the images so far have struck a false note. Each fits nicely in terms of style. You have provided plenty of Rider-Waite symbolism so that I can easily recognize the correspondence with only a glance at the title or number to confirm. I think that it would be less effective if you were following the Rider-Waite images too closely. These are baroque cats after all they have a standard of dress to up hold .

I had not seen the 4 of swords. I must have missed it when you posted it here. It is a lovely card (but then I have liked all of them so far) Red tabbies (or gingers or whatever) are popular cats. Whether it is their temperament or just that people like the color, apparently when people migrated they took the light coated red colored cats with them. I came across a study on coat color prevalance in various parts of the world that was done in the 50's the authors reached some interesting conclusions. I know what you mean about that sleeping cat smiling face. Cats sleep better than any other creatures I know.

Don't do too many re-makes. I can't wait to be able to have this deck for real so I can see all of the details up close and personal.

Deb

Karen, I wanted to add that the Temperance card is wonderful just as it is. My suggestion was only a suggestion. And I adore that 6 of cups card. The 'boy' kitten makes me want to hug him.

I've only just read these this morning (supermarket run last night in which Prague yet again pulled one of it's strange slightly surreal jokes - I'll tell you about it sometime ).


So, before I properly reply I'll put up a close-up of the Temperance wall painting. Again, it isn't all that high quality - in the final cards this is all much much easier to see (btw also the cups have quite a beautiful pattern and gold rims, but I doubt you can see that at all).

We really do want to include some of these original art pieces. What we've done on this deck is to put in a lot of beautiful and interesting things from Cesky Krumlov (reputed to be the most perfect unspoilt renaissance town in Europe). We did a three-day photography session specially last October. Obviously, this is the sort of work we couldn't put into Tarot of Prague, because it isn't in Prague! But it does need to be seen. To our eyes, this looks like a slightly unusual depiction of Temperance, but in fact it isn't really - for the time it is fairly normal. Note the little animal at her feet - I think it's a deer (it just could be a dog, but I doubt it). I need to find out more about the significance of this.
This painting was accompanied by the other virtues by the way, though I doubt we can fit many of them in (as ever, we have to leave out far more than we can fit in). Anyway, I'll stop before I write a chapter!

http://www.bohemian-cats.com/examples/c_temperance_wallpainting.jpg

Marion - I will just say, the dress was the thing we spent ages on. Oh dear! We began with it absolutely plain, as originally photographed, but it looked a bit drab and graphically Alex felt it created a kind of blank space in the middle of quite a complex image. We then tried out a lot of options and finally decided that this rather elaborate skirt, but with a very restrained colour, worked best. But yes, it's one thing we wondered if we would get a reaction to. Plain in theory should work better - but it just didn't somehow.

Anyway, a bit more to say here. I'll definitely try to explain how we divide up the work too - as that's something that is a bit of a sensitive point sometimes - I'll explain - all to do with some cultural differences here!

Oh - one question. Is it obvious the main figure in Temperance is standing at the edge of water? Perhaps I need to put up another close-up or two?

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Edited to add. I like the idea of putting in bullrushes Hudson. I wonder if that's possible (i.e. if we have any good ones). This bush took AGES to cut and I know that Alex is quite attached to it because he feels it adds necessary colour - the background wall is quite stark really. We have a lot of rushes in The Star, so in theory we may have enough photos. I think we may do this - IF we feel it doesn't take too much colour away.

Thanks for the detail Karen. My old eyes can't always see straight. On my first look I couldn't even see the silver cup!

Now, I can't trust my eyes but in the painting detail it looks to me like a winged fairy next to a rock. Or is it a fox?

It's so hard to see these details on screen. I am part of the army of those longing to see this deck in print.

HI Karen, this (Temperance) is definitely one of those cards that grows on you. I have now looked at it several times and read all of the comments and now your response. I saw the wings right away, which are perfect btw. The dress is much plainer, agreed. And now you say it, you have used really plain clothes for workers types and children. Not appropriate for an angel. Someone commented (forget who) that after all it *is* a Baroque deck! I see the water now, duh! (blush)
Thanks for the close-up of the painting, very charming and elegant. I am now quite inclined to think the card is very good the way it is. I prefer the flowers to bullrushes. imo of course.

Major Tom said:

Thanks for the detail Karen. My old eyes can't always see straight. On my first look I couldn't even see the silver cup!

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It isn't your eyes Tom, it's the curse of showing everything at these tiny sizes. The originals are generally very crisp and clear, but in these little jpgs I can't see half the detail either!

The animal does seem to be a deer, but this is confusing because I find a piece saying that the deer is sometimes associated with Prudence, not Temperance. I am still searching for more on why a deer is in this depiction (by the way, this site is really very good -
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/cgi-local/DHI/dhi.cgi?id=dv4-49)

OH! Tom, with reference to your question elsewhere about Temperance being shown with bare breasts? (sorry everyone, this is in another thread) this site says that YES, she was sometimes shown naked!

Karen...ty for the wonderful link...another keeper for my favorites...just one comment on the "Temperance" discussion...Certainly, everyone has a right to their impressions and opinions..ultimately, your final "creation" will be just that...
and a beautiful one!

I was just rereading this morning on some history of Tarot...think I found it in Greer's book, Tarot for YourSelf...I do love her chapter/synopsis on history and interrelationship of the many factors that led to the evolution of various decks...I am a new student to TdeMarseilles, and I while feel she shortchanged this whole area...she does summarize the necessity for decks to evolve as we move into new eras:

That being said, I love her paraphrase of Martha Heyneman's discussions on cosmologies....

- Greer: If we have a universe of pattern and purpose, for a cosmology to be effective it has to be able to grow, change and evolve like a living being, being able to digest ideas. information and experience.

Click to expand...

She goes on to add that....(an effective cosmology)

must bring into order a vast realm
of seemingly unrelated data - of contradictory experiences that take their places in harmonious relationships so that their meaning can be revealed.

Click to expand...

Astra said:

Combining baroque with "stark" may in fact be an impossible problem, but if you can figure out a way to do it, I think it would enhance the overall meaning of the card. (The worst part of this is that I don't have any picture at all of what I mean here. Rats. I hate people who don't know what they want when they ask for changes.)

Click to expand...

Astra, thanks for this. Well, it's one of those things, because we think the rather stark stone wall and painting in the background - and the rather restrained colour of the dress - does this. But then again, obviously for some people this still looks quite decorative?
The painting in the background is postively nun-like in a way, and I actually like that for this card (no wings too - in fact in most of the older depictions of Temperance you see there are no wings, so interesting how they are usualy there in the tarot..)

Bob, I hope it isn't claustrophobic. She is outside, by a river or pond and so I think this contrasts with all our "interiors" cards. (but see below, you HAVE got us to change the Justice image!)

Er, I suppose what I'm saying is that we probably won't much change this card. Thanks CatDoc for saying that we shouldn't change too much! Sometimes this is really reassuring.
Oddly enough, the thing I was really a bit worried about, no-one has commented on (and no, I'm not going to say what it is! Not the cat's gender for once either!) So this will probably largely stay as it is. But the comments are very useful. But you know, what seems to happen sometimes is that comments made on one card influence another (Bob, you will be glad to hear that I just opened up the background of Justice a bit, as you have me thinking about this today )
Our "fretting" card is still the High Priestess. I am almost thinking that it's the wrong cat...

So, other things. Well, Hudson, the houses on the SIx of Cups are painted. They are actually facades from our Christmas market. I like the idea that they are really "toy houses" not real-sized ones. The are a little like barns, I can see that - it's kind of nice too as an association for this card, which should feel outdoors but in "owned space" not the open countryside.

Tom. This brings me to how we split the work. Well, in fact when ToP was published several people here congratulated Alex and ignored me totally - ouch! This made both of us laugh in a way - I'm afraid it's a bit of an assumption here that in a partnership the woman will do the admin and the man will be the creative. This drives me up the walls of course!

So, in fact what seems to happen is that the projects are mostly my idea in theory and I also do a bit (edited to say, well no, in fact around 50% at least) of the overall design - how it should, or might be. In this deck, the idea of using models and costumes was mine - but then Alex developed it a lot further. He says that I am the Art Director - I do set a lot of the general aim and style - and Business Consultant and he is the Creative Director - he takes my ideas and makes them much more real - and Head of Production (in "design studio" terms). Does that make any sense? I do a lot in the earlier stages, he takes over 80% or more in the later stages - with me commenting and often suggesting elements or symbols that might be included (but he definitely has the final say). I am no Photoshop expert, whereas he is. On the other hand, I am the web person (I have a formal software training oddly enough, and spent years as an interaction and web designer). I write the books of course - as his English is not quite there yet.

We do take over each other's bits on occasion, but mostly not. For the projects up-coming, I will make suggestions about what I think we should work on, and he will do a bit of editing (there are two projects fighting for limited time next year, and he has chosen which one, which is fine by me).

But in the end you know, we live and breathe the work and it's sometimes hard to know exactly which of us does what. In different ways we are well-matched. No one viewpoint gets the upper hand usually - he can be every bit as opinionated as me about which projects to do, and how to go about them (Alex used to run his own gallery and really does have a lot of discrimination about what is or isn't worthwhile in artistic terms).

This is one occasion when I might ask him to contribute to this thread - it would be interesting to see if his account is the same as mine!

Does that kind of answer the questions? Sorry it's a long posting.