The Hands and Feet of the Devil in Tarot de Marseille

empress's dress

In the Tarot de Marseille, why does the Devil have 5 fingers and toes on his right hand and foot and 4 on his left hand and foot? And furthermore why does the seemingly female imp on the right have 5 fingers on each hand and 5 toes on each foot and the seemingly male one on the left have 4 fingers on each hand and 4 toes on each foot? Why do the left imps's digits add up to 8? Why do the devil's digits add up to 9? Is the torch supposed to be like a 5th finger on his left hand? Is it because he is imperfect? It looks like the toe next to his big toe was severed on his left foot. Any insight historical or otherwise would be appreciated?
 

Mim

Something just popped up from my memories. There was a time when thieves were punished by the cut-off of a finger.
Torture equally used this kind of method to make people confess things, in the time of Inquisition, for example.

But I don't know it these are good reasons. Just thought about them.
 

empress's dress

Something just popped up from my memories. There was a time when thieves were punished by the cut-off of a finger.
Torture equally used this kind of method to make people confess things, in the time of Inquisition, for example.

But I don't know it these are good reasons. Just thought about them.

Both things being historically the case can totally have contributed to the reason why. They in any event add to the arsenal of interpretation, which is always a good thing!
 

mrpants

empress's dress, can you tell me which Marseille tarot you are using? My guess is that this finger pattern is not universal among Marseille decks, but I'd like to look at your card directly and compare to others in my collection.
 

empress's dress

empress's dress, can you tell me which Marseille tarot you are using? My guess is that this finger pattern is not universal among Marseille decks, but I'd like to look at your card directly and compare to others in my collection.

The CBD Tarot de Marseille and the Camoin-Jodorowsky Deck (which I know takes some liberties with TdM that many people don't appreciate:)). And you are right it isn't universal! I just started looking at other TdM decks' Devils now. But I find the imagery very compelling. Again, any historical as well interpretive explanations for the imagery would be greatly appreciated.

Also, I recently started with tarot.
 

mrpants

What I can tell you, about why these two decks of yours agree on this point in particular, is that Ben-Dov was a student of Jodorowski, and used some of his creative liberties when crafting his deck. They are both based mostly on the Dodal, with which I'm not very familiar, so I don't know if this aspect is present in the source material, or if it's a Jodo contribution, why he went there. Can anyone else weigh in on this?
 

empress's dress

What I can tell you, about why these two decks of yours agree on this point in particular, is that Ben-Dov was a student of Jodorowski, and used some of his creative liberties when crafting his deck. They are both based mostly on the Dodal, with which I'm not very familiar, so I don't know if this aspect is present in the source material, or if it's a Jodo contribution, why he went there. Can anyone else weigh in on this?

Ben-Dov's deck is supposedly a faithful reproduction of the Conver from 1760. And the images I've seen on the internet of the Devil card in the Conver deck do have the same layout of digits on hands and feet as the C-J and CBD decks.
 

Abrac

Jodorowsky's The Way of the Tarot mentions the fingers and toes but doesn't shed a lot of light what it means. Here's the paragraph from the book:

"The Devil is standing on some sort of pedestal or plinth, to which two imps are connected by an orange rope passing through a central light-blue ring. We could say that the imp on the left is a woman and that on the right a man by referring to the expression on their faces, although no sexual distinction has been drawn. The woman bears a small sign on her chest, three dots arranged in a triangle to indicate she is sacred. These two individuals have feet shaped like roots that plunge into the dark ground. The feet of the woman have five toes each, whereas those of the other imp have only four. This is the card that reveals the active dimension of the female and the passive dimension of the male, the two energies combining to create the hermaphrodite devil, who has both breasts and a penis on his body. His right foot and hand have five toes and fingers, while the hand and foot on the left have four. The two imps have horns on their heads, bringing to mind those medieval legends in which animals remain imprisoned by their homs in the forest of passion. We can view them as two individuals attached by their desires, but also rooted in the profound source and transformed into the servants of The Devil's creative androgyny, free from all prejudices."​
 

mrpants

Shoot yes, based on Conver, not Dodal. I knew that. Thanks for checking the source deck for similarities.
 

empress's dress

Jodorowsky's The Way of the Tarot mentions the fingers and toes but doesn't shed a lot of light what it means.

Thank you Abrac! Jodorowsky is wonderfully observant and incredibly profound. He clearly finds this detail important but as you point out in this instance he fails to offer any reasons as to why it's important.

I've been doing some research but have found nothing yet.

Maybe there is no traditional reason for the hands and feet as they are and it was just an inspiration of the artist to do it like that. The hands and feet certainly add to the symbolic richness of the image.