Thoth Deck - Anyone Use?

thanks closrapexa, your comments are helpful. I'll continue my reading. One of the aspect of astrology regarding the Thoth that sounds interesting is the idea of different planets being exalted in various houses. I thought I came across a thread here that discussed that, but can't find it now.

morerain said:

What do people think of the Thoth deck? The images in Thoth have my curiosity piqued. I'm relatively new at tarot reading but I think I'm starting to pick it up... The meanings and possible interpretations of the cards and such. Using Rider-Waite (easiest for me to read); Morgan Greer (love cup images! Especially Two of Cups) I feel A resonance/connection with this deck) and Gilded Tarot (images feel more intense and powerful - except more difficult to read).

So, how does the Thoth deck compare to other decks you've used?
Is it easier or harder to read this deck?
What is your advice to a "newbie"?
Should I stick to one deck for now? Will using different decks from one day to the next confuse me?

Thanks.

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My advise is do not start with the Thoth deck. IMO it stunts new readers. As do the decks without illustrated pips.

I started with that deck, because a friend of mine was into that deck. I didn't use anything else for, hmm...wow maybe, 10 years?

When you're new to Tarot you don't have any of the "images" memorized so you don't really know the difference from card to card. You look up every card with every reading. And with that deck you will keep looking the images up for many years. Because, from what I understand (& I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong) the artist who drew the images didn't know Tarot & just made cool pictures. There's not a lot of meaning to pull from with the images. The reason people say start with Rider Waite is because the imagery on the cards is really clear. It's easy to make the associations. Once you can at the very least remember the cards, you start noticing little extra things in the cards as you go along & do more & more readings. After you're REALLY familiar with the cards & don't even need to see the images to remember what the 6 of clubs "means", then at that point you can use any deck you want, with pictures of cats or Dali paintings or whatever, because in your mind you already know what that card means.

I was still using a book after many years of reading cards, and when I switched to the Rider Waite, I couldn't believe how quickly I started remembering the cards. At that point, it just kind of pissed me off that I'd wasted so much time with the Thoth deck.

Tarotwolf said:

I have fourteen versions of the Thoth, including the Sangreal, and absolutely love its history and artwork. However, I don't use it! One of the reasons is simply because keywords are printed on the cards. In this deck it just seems to constrict my interpretations, especially with the 7 of disks. I see this card in terms of the RWS image and meaning. Several other cards put up similar roadblocks.

I want to work with this deck so I've come up with a solution. Trim the borders! I know a lot of others here trim their decks, but it's always felt a bit sacrilegious. However, I think it's going to be the only way for me to get past my blockage. I saw where Tarot Oracle on Youtube trimmed his Thoth and it looked incredible. So, I ordered a large copy of the deck from Amazon last week just for this purpose (I can't seem to "deface" any of the Thoth decks I already have, I guess it's the collector in me). We'll see how it goes!

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That's precisely why I didn't want to make the DOB deck ALL with keywords. Since I made the key words/titles as an option, that's all that I've sold - everyone wants THAT deck - however, I know there are people like you (and me) who don't want any words at all to get in the way. What happens is, a sitter sees ONE word and thinks that's the whole meaning of the card - while you know that the card is actually saying something a little different than just "that", but if you try to tell them that, they think you're just pulling definitions out of the air. That being said, when I was STARTING reading, I desperately wanted a cool deck with upright and reversal keywords.

seven stars said:

When you're new to Tarot you don't have any of the "images" memorized so you don't really know the difference from card to card. You look up every card with every reading. And with that deck you will keep looking the images up for many years. Because, from what I understand (& I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong) the artist who drew the images didn't know Tarot & just made cool pictures. There's not a lot of meaning to pull from with the images. The reason people say start with Rider Waite is because the imagery on the cards is really clear. It's easy to make the associations. Once you can at the very least remember the cards, you start noticing little extra things in the cards as you go along & do more & more readings. After you're REALLY familiar with the cards & don't even need to see the images to remember what the 6 of clubs "means", then at that point you can use any deck you want, with pictures of cats or Dali paintings or whatever, because in your mind you already know what that card means.

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Alright, so I'll correct you.
The Thoth was painted by a gifted artist who studied projective geometry, was a co-Mason and was a member of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. It was created under tutelage of one of the most learned occultists in known history. Not to sound smug, but you used it for ten years, with a book, and never bothered to find out who made it? What book did you use?

As for the images themselves, the Thoth pips aren't the Marseilles pips, but rather, evocative pips that show the mood of the card. It is a matter of taste, of course, if one can "pull meanings" from the images. I've been using the Thoth for several years, and began before I knew anything about it and still found it more evocative and clear than any RWS.

The RWS is one system, the Thoth is another. If you try to superimpose the RWS meanings onto the Thoth you'll reach a dead end, simply because they aren't the same. If someone gets locked into a mindset that the 6 of Swords can't be anything but a boat, that's a mental rut they would do well to give up on. The titles aren't keywords any more than the Devil or Temperance are, but titles, names of cards. You can't use really use them as keywords even if you try.

closrapexa said:

Not to sound smug, but you used it for ten years, with a book, and never bothered to find out who made it? What book did you use?

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Thanks for the correction, that was something that at one time I had either heard or read. I re-looked her up just to see what I remembered & ya it just seemed like she was just a person mostly into Aleister Crowley, not really Tarot. I think at the end of the day what it boiled down to was that for ME, Crowley himself was just too much of a goofball for me to stomach. The book by Lon Milo Duquette, which I bought, I just couldn't get through, & so I bought the book Keywords for the Crowley Thoth. The whole thing was just into a lot of stuff I didn't care about, but, I didn't know any better in the beginning to understand that this wasn't the only way, & after I figured THAT out, I ended up using more RWS type translations and yes that was the death of it.

There are several types of people who get into reading Tarot for different types of reasons. Thoth is great for people who are really deep into the Occult, Masons & Hermetism. I'm just so not into any of those things. And yet, there's still a place for me in the great world of Tarot . It's just more along the lines of folklore & gypsies than the freemasons & O.T.O.

morerain said:

What do people think of the Thoth deck? The images in Thoth have my curiosity piqued. I'm relatively new at tarot reading but I think I'm starting to pick it up... The meanings and possible interpretations of the cards and such. Using Rider-Waite (easiest for me to read); Morgan Greer (love cup images! Especially Two of Cups) I feel A resonance/connection with this deck) and Gilded Tarot (images feel more intense and powerful - except more difficult to read).

So, how does the Thoth deck compare to other decks you've used?
Is it easier or harder to read this deck?
What is your advice to a "newbie"?
Should I stick to one deck for now? Will using different decks from one day to the next confuse me?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

As requested, here's what I think:

The Thoth is the best tarot deck I've ever owned. Personally, I believe it is the best deck of all time. It took me a while to realize this. Some people love it at once, others have to learn to love it. I was of the latter group.

It is neither easier nor harder. If you have no background in numerology or astrology, you will want to learn a bit. It is perfectly possible to read Thoth knowing only the nature of each suit and a bit of numerology. You can build from there.

My advice to a newbie is, if you want to use Thoth, do it, and don't let anyone tell you it's wrong for you or too hard. It isn't. It has enough depth to absorb you for a lifetime. But it's not too hard.

I think, yes, you should stick to one deck or at least a style of deck, for now. This is because the Thoth system and the Rider Waite Smith system are different enough to be really confusing to a newbie. You can always learn with other decks later.

Sibylline said:

Thinking about Thoth? Do eeeeet! [insert maniacal laughter here]

I can see your concern about the minor arcana, but the Thoth speaks in its own way. Even though the minors don't have the kind of RWS "action" pictures you're used to, they are incredibly evocative. There are times when I get lost in a minor because I'll sit there and see a world of meaning in just one image. Thoth is different, but it's definitely worth giving it a go.

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I agree with this. I used RW at first and found the Thoth minors not 'visually descrptive' enough. But as I started to do a lot of public readings I realised the RW images were actually restricting my interpretation. The more 'abstract' or 'impersonal imagery' on the Thoth began to trigger more of a 'feel' for the energy and that was modified by other energies present and the clients situation and I was able to combine THAT into its own visually descriptive picture.

With RW I was trying to fit the persons unique situation into the RW visual image.

So I feel the Thoth really helped me develop as a reader.

[ As far as a sytem of Hermetic and magical/philosophy to study (aside from the decks use as a divinitory tool) I find it unsurpassed and have studied the system with fascination (and great help and assistance to me) for over 30 years.]

ravenest said:

I agree with this. I used RW at first and found the Thoth minors not 'visually descrptive' enough. But as I started to do a lot of public readings I realised the RW images were actually restricting my interpretation. The more 'abstract' or 'impersonal imagery' on the Thoth began to trigger more of a 'feel' for the energy and that was modified by other energies present and the clients situation and I was able to combine THAT into its own visually descriptive picture.

With RW I was trying to fit the persons unique situation into the RW visual image.

So I feel the Thoth really helped me develop as a reader.

[ As far as a sytem of Hermetic and magical/philosophy to study (aside from the decks use as a divinitory tool) I find it unsurpassed and have studied the system with fascination (and great help and assistance to me) for over 30 years.]

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The Thoth actually made me almost give up reading, actually, at least in the way I used to. I suppose, without meaning to complement myself, that now I "divine" while before I used to "tell fortunes," and the difference is like night and day.

It was only about a year and a half ago that I picked up DuQuette's book and started looking at it really seriously. At first I just read it while looking at the cards and after a while of that took a few months off to learn the rudiments of Qabalah. I read the Book of Thoth, but didn't study it, as I am doing now. That took a while, and now I'm back, analyzing each card in what is probably a very basic way, through the BoT, the Tree of Life, assorted mythology as well as the mythologies of the astrological signs and planets. Slow going, but I'm not going anywhere, and this is my first in-depth look at it. Each card takes me about two weeks and innumerable pages of musings until I think I vaguely understand it, or at least gain the knowledge that I don't.

It has challenged me and my innate preconceptions to such a degree that I can't even describe it. I can't tackle the Book of Law yet and do it justice, and although I dip into it now and again as necessity arises, I'll conduct an in-depth look after I'm done with, at the very least, with the preliminary survey of the majors. That should take me, at most, another six or seven months, considering I'm on Lust. Of course, after the BoL it will mean going back to the cards all over again, but that's part of the package.

But this must be the trite ramblings of a N00b to someone with 30 years under their belts.

LRichard said:

In a nutshell: The Thoth is essentially the Rider-Waite after it has come out of the closet.

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OMG too funny, thank you, very appropriate description

On the flip side of most the views here, I guess, I never really got into or liked the Thoth. When I was still very new to tarot I tried to find something I liked about it because of the popularity of it but couldn't. When I started collecting I knew I had to get at least one but even then I set a strict and impossibly low price range for it plus had only one that I would go for, the Swiss blue box from 1986, I believe. I got it, looked at it once then threw it in my chest I keep my tarots in with only the odd once or twice a year I take it out just to look at it and put it back in. I find it to be similar to the RWS, which doesn't help as I am more focused and interested in non illustrated pip decks and/or semi illustrated decks, but if you like it then I highly recommend going for it. In my search for a likable Thoth I have looked at a lot of them and found them all to be very similar so I would stick to one but, again, to each their own.