Marseilles Decks

Hi All

Looking for your help, since I am ignorant to the many variations of the Marseilles.

I have had some very good advice from Diana regarding the Marseilles and have settled with the fact that the 'Hadar' is probably the pack that would be most suited to me visually and the colouring was probably the kind I would like most.

Have looked at the different decks since on the net and discovered even more options. I will still purchased the Hadar, but should I come across any other variations and have that 'impulse urge' to delve into my pockets and buy one (an urge I can't control, you must understand lol), what I want to know from you experienced souls is ..... is there any that I should REALLY stay away from? At the moment, it is hard to tell the difference between them all, let alone variations and reprints of the same deck. I have seen the Camoin and the Conver in reviews here - the only names I remember apart from the Hadar. I remember my friend has a ToM but similarly, I couldn't begin to tell you which one it was; aside from she doesn't read the cards, to my knowledge and has had it quite a few years. The colouring on hers were quite stark and at the time, I remember being quite unattracted to it.

I suppose it is like someone who has never seen the cards before and wants to buy a RiderWaite; which do they purchase? So many tried and tested versions. If you have no knowledge of that area, you may go searching for the older yellow box version and come home with the Radiant or Universal, knowing little of the contrast between the three.

Does this make sense?

Thanks to Diana, once again, for her help; and to anyone else that may be able to help with this search.

Best wishes to you all

Yaboot

For what it's worth, I have given a PERSONAL rating to my various Marseille decks...

Personally, I would definitely obtain a copy of the Héron Conver Marseilles as it remains a relatively easy-to-get reproduction of a 1760 variant.

Other than that, the recommendation as to which deck would probably depend to whom the recommendation was made

Marseilles decks: (16 different decks)
Angel Tarot (Japanese printed US Games) **
Burdel (Lo Scarabeo - altered/adulterated) *
Camoin (Camoin) **** <- recommended
Conver (Héron - facsimile) ***** <- highly recommended
Conver (Camoin - thick cardboard collector's) **** <- recommended
Conver (Lo Scarabeo - facsimile) ***
Conver ('Tarot Set' - facsimile) ***
Tarot de la Felicité (Majors only) **** <- recommended
Marseille (Fribourg 18th c. Piatnik) ***
Hadar **** <- recommended
Dodal (Majors only - letarot.com ed.) **** <- highly recommended
Dodal (Dusserre 1701 reproduction) ***** <- highest recommendation
Marteau (Grimaud) French titles ***
Marteau (Grimaud) English/French titles **
Noblet (Majors only - letarot.com ed.) **** <- highly recommended
Ottone 1736 Fournier reproduction ***


(Posted bu jmd)



Ahhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

More confused than ever now lol.

Thanks jmd. It has helped a little. Maybe it is a case of physically looking at the decks in shops and seeing which feels right.

Will keep you posted.

Yaboot

Here's some visual samples

These are mostly modernized reprints---I almost want to say that if you were just looking for a modernized or updated--but not necessarily historical--you might find these available--there's publishing and other information on this page. They may be good second decks if they appeal to you.

http://www.learntarot.com/subjma.htm

JMD put a few stars by the Angel Playing Card company reprint--it combines different Marseilles styles, it's not historical. I like it and I believe it has a hanged man in profile, kind of humorous. I found out over time that since the Angel was my first 'warm-up' introduction to the Marseilles, I actually started looking for designs with the Hanged Man in profile--and find I like the Swiss Marsiglia 1804...I've wound up liking the funny variations and the old proto-types such as the Vieville.

Those who steer you to the Hader are showing you a good thing. Maybe the samples I am showing you might be what to avoid....

A quite inexpensive and nice reprint for about $12 has been reviewed by Mark Filpas--and I believe the set should be available in England as well--large cards, might be fun for historical reprint:

http://www.tarotpassages.com/TarotSet-mf.htm

The book for that set is kooky. The cards are very nice, although the old flaws are reproduced as well. I think of it as antique postcard reprints, good for the price.

Another good Marseilles comparison site

If you print the list that JMD gave you and look at the learntarot site, that's four samples of the ones JMD noted:

Angel Tarot (Japanese printed US Games) **
Burdel (Lo Scarabeo - altered/adulterated) *

Conver (Lo Scarabeo - facsimile) ***
Conver ('Tarot Set' - facsimile) ***
------------------------------------------------------------
Below, Felicity's site covers others:

http://home.comcast.net/~felicityk/tarot/marseilles/index.html


Camoin (Camoin) **** <- recommended
Conver (Héron - facsimile) ***** <- highly recommended
Conver (Camoin - thick cardboard collector's) **** <- recommended

and I believe she has the Hader as well.

Those two sites give a lot of good buying information and samples.

Happy shopping!

Regards

Cerulean

Yaboot: If you do buy the deck from the Tarot Set that cerulean speaks of, you may chuck the book that comes with it written by Jane Lyle in the bin. It is based on the Rider Waite "traditional" meanings of the cards.

The deck itself seems to be okay, but I don't have it (only have the book which was sent to me by a thoroughly frustrated member.) Although cerulean speaks of "large" cards. Are they too large perhaps for shuffling and doing readings with?

If you ever do decide to get a Conver, don't buy the Lo Scarabeo. The Heron is better. It's kind of like the difference between a pizza from Pizza Hut, or a pizza from the Italian restaurant down the road.

A number of Aeclecticians like the Fournier deck. I think it looks like a kid's colouring-in book. A pity, because I like the Fournier people (the company, I mean). I really don't want to come down on their poor heads. People get attracted to the "colours". One doesn't buy a Marseilles deck because it has pretty colours.

You know my opinion on the Camoin. Well not really all my opinion. A lot of it I keep to myself. But it's certainly not my cup of tea. (Ceylon tea is my favourite. Not tea-bags. Proper tea-leaves. Preferably in a porcelain cup. With a tiny little cloud of milk, thank you.)

I suppose that with regards to the Camoin, Diana and I do not share the same view.

I personally tend to regard it quite highly. Nonetheless, it is a modern production - as is the Hadar. I am certain that each of these creators would alter their respective decks somewhat were they to recommence their design in 2004. To my reflections, that is simply a consequence of the living tradition of the being of Tarot, for its essence - the Ür-Tarot - cannot be captured, but rather only partially and imperfectly reflected in the nonetheless useful creations via its various midwives (Hadar, Camoin, Dodal, Conver, and a host of others).

If I had to simply state my favourite modern production, I would probably pick the Atouts only Tarot de la Felicité - to which I have given four stars, simply because I cannot give five stars to a deck without the Courts and Pips. Flornoy's re-productions of the Dodal and Noblet (again Atouts only) I would also unhesitatedly recommend.

Of what appears to me the two of highest singular value, for both their meticulous details and for their historical import, are the Héron Conver and the Dussere Dodal - and of these, the latter appears to have elements un-matched in the former (hence my 5-star for the Dodal, but only 4.5 for the Conver).

The other decks, though quite worthy of obtaining - including a copy of the Grimaud, which I would recommend all Tarot enthusiasts to have - I simply do not rate quite as highly.

So, to 'reduce' some confusion, I would recommend, for historical and comparative purposes, both:

• Conver (Héron - 1760) *****
  
• Dodal (Dusserre - 1701) *****

As 'modern', but true-to-impulse renditions, both:

• Camoin-Jodorowsky ****
  
• Hadar ****

Here is a site where you can see the Dodal published by Dusserre which jmd recommends (click on the links in the text to see the cards):

http://membres.lycos.fr/tarobat/mesjeux/Jeux.htm

But I haven't found a site that sells it...

-- Lee

Hi Yaboot,

I was as confused and overwhelmed as you. For a while I had wanted a Marseilles deck and to be honest the confusion over which one to get prevented me from buying one. Then I made the decision to just buy one (based on a list of decent ones)

So I bought the Hadar, which I am thrilled with, and then realized that of course I will probably buy at least two more Marseilles decks out of interest, but for the moment I am happy with the Hadar.

My recommendation is to pick one from the list jmd posted and just go and get it. You will feel better once you have it. Later on you can buy another one or two, but right now, just go and get one.

all the best,
Ruby7

Hi Yaboot

About 8 months ago I was in the position you are in now. I settled in the end for the Hadar, mainly because I liked the colours, but also because to those of us that do not read french, he has an excellent site with courses available.

For me, it was a case of deciding whether I wanted a modern Marseilles (i.e Hadar, Camoin) or a reproduction of an original (I guess this is where the Dodal and Conver come in).

I thought to make the transition easier, I should go with something with a modern feel, and clearer images (this was just my view), and at some point I will get one of the others as well. In order to gel with the deck I think you should go with what you are attracted to, out of the best ones available (as shown by jmd), then build on that . It would also be interesting to find out where these are available, bearing in mind that you and I are in the UK. I have found playingcardsales very good as they ship from France and they provide an excellent service but I don't know if all of these decks are in stock with them.

Good luck in your choice, it's not easy at the start

I'm no expert, unlike the others here though.