gregory
I am actually - I just had nothing to add. I have more interest in her than in the cards.
ETA Searched out thread. That wasn't quite what I meant - that's about other cards she used. She was an interesting woman...
The Current State of the Lenormand Community
ETA Searched out thread. That wasn't quite what I meant - that's about other cards she used. She was an interesting woman...
Le Fanu
r.e the woman herself, I tend to think that no documentation which exists about her can be trusted or verified. Certainly not her own writings. I don't think there is anything cited in books which is considered true beyond contention. I think the mystery is good for writers in that it means people can invent.
I think people have molded her into what they want her to be. A sort of counterbalance to the male-dominated side of tarot history (late Victorian to Crowley) who produced a kinda scenic playing card deck. She has been claimed as an innovator, perhaps feisty, perhaps an early feminist (?) - which may well be true - but we have no facts, so people can make her their own.
But I agree with gregory, she is fascinating.
I would just add that we don't really know anything even though we'd all love to know what the mysterious deck was which she used. It certainly wasn't this twee thing in circulation now with doggies and flowers and a lovely little child playing hoop-la...
So you have half a community which wants to invent and be free and the other half which believes what was written. Recipe for disaster.
I think people have molded her into what they want her to be. A sort of counterbalance to the male-dominated side of tarot history (late Victorian to Crowley) who produced a kinda scenic playing card deck. She has been claimed as an innovator, perhaps feisty, perhaps an early feminist (?) - which may well be true - but we have no facts, so people can make her their own.
But I agree with gregory, she is fascinating.
I would just add that we don't really know anything even though we'd all love to know what the mysterious deck was which she used. It certainly wasn't this twee thing in circulation now with doggies and flowers and a lovely little child playing hoop-la...
So you have half a community which wants to invent and be free and the other half which believes what was written. Recipe for disaster.
Zephyros
I don't use Lenormand, although I have been following this thread, and I'll chime in to Le Fanu's post, that the same could be said of Pixie Smith. I've seen, over the years, a growing deification of her, and people saying of her the same things you mentioned about Lenormand. An early feminist, feisty, possessing magic powers of channeling, she did the deck without any intervention, it was actually her idea and not Waite's, etc. The list of things people say about her goes on and on, possibly as a counter reaction to Waite being a stodgy white male. There is hardly any hard, factual evidence about PCS, almost all of it being anecdotal. Most people don't even know the anecdotal evidence, mostly basing themselves on a single photograph in which she looks like kind of a cool person. The thing to remember is that even though she may have been ahead of her time, it was still her time, and projecting what stands today for "ahead of her time" has little to do with what that meant then.
There is a lot more to go on when discussing Frieda Harris or Moina Mathers or Netta Fornario, but people still project whatever they want onto those women as well, even though real evidence can be found as to what they were actually like.
Point is that the work exists independently of its creator, and its social impact can be seen whether or not the fables told about either woman are true.
There is a lot more to go on when discussing Frieda Harris or Moina Mathers or Netta Fornario, but people still project whatever they want onto those women as well, even though real evidence can be found as to what they were actually like.
Point is that the work exists independently of its creator, and its social impact can be seen whether or not the fables told about either woman are true.
Teheuti
As with the origins of Tarot, quite a bit more than that is known. I agree that people tend to fantasize about Mlle. Lenormand a great deal, but for anyone who is truly interested, there is plenty of material from which to build a fairly realistic (though not in-depth) view. Here's a blog post featuring first-person accounts of readings with her. And read the Comments for more.
http://marygreer.wordpress.com/2008/02/12/madame-le-normand-the-most-famous-card-reader-of-all-time/
What is most significant to our discussion is that the 36-card Petit Lenormand deck is clearly German, originating in the late 18th century with the Game of Hope and owing a lot to coffee-ground readings and probably the Viennese Coffee-Cards. The deck and instructions for reading it that accompanied every deck until recently, were standardized and given a new life in 1845/6, shortly after Mlle. Lenormand died in France. They obviously appropriated her famous name for promotional purposes, which was the custom with most occult and fortune-telling tomes. In American the deck was published around 1865 as Madame Morrow's Fortune-Telling Cards (among other editions), soon after the real and notorious East Coast fortune-teller, Madame Morrow, died - carrying on the venerable tradition.
Sar
Brighid
Sar
Perhaps it is, thank you.
Teheuti
Those are the instructions I was talking about. At first they seem too vague and confusing with their references to near and far and "when clouded," so classes, forums and instructional websites can be very helpful for getting started. However, I recommend going back to these instructions again and again as their references become clearer. For me, all the new modifications need to align with these core instructions.
Sar
Agreed.
Tanga
So...er... after reading aaaall of this...
Should I get Silvie Stienbachs 'Secrets of the Lenormand'?
(completely clueless here - and coming from Tarot with great curiosity).
and... must I be wary of 'all you Lenormand people'? :-D
Tipy toes here.
Should I get Silvie Stienbachs 'Secrets of the Lenormand'?
(completely clueless here - and coming from Tarot with great curiosity).
and... must I be wary of 'all you Lenormand people'? :-D
Tipy toes here.
