Hellenistic Astrology

The Names of the Places and their topical signification

There are two early sources of the topical significance of each Place. The first comes from Hermes (or at least is reported to have come from him by later writers). The second comes from Ascelepius, though as with Hermes the sources are second hand from later Hellenistic writers.

Hermes

The first place is often referred to as the Helm - it's life and health and vitality Hermes also included siblings (usually vital to life)

The second place is the 'Gates of Hades' Hopes or expectations

The third place is the Goddess - Action and Siblings

The Fourth place is the Subterranean Pivot - Foundation of happiness, paternal possessions and slaves

The Fifth place - Good fortune, which later included children which are the best fortune if you want to be maintained in your old age (this is the joy of Venus)

The Sixth place - bad fortune - vengeance and injury

The Seventh place - Death (the opposite place to Life) and the Wife/Husband

The Eighth place - Life and Livelihood (note that this topic later shifted to the second house)

The Ninth place - the House of God. Travel and living abroad (as the House of God, Religion was added later).

The Tenth place - Midheaven - Fortune, Livelihood, Life, Children, Action, Honour, Ruling, Leading.

The Eleventh place - Good Spirit (Things beneficial to mental and spirtual health) The joy of Jupiter

The Twelfth place - Livelihood, submission of slaves.

Aesclepius sugested an eight place system, which never caught on but it has relevance to the developement of the Places/Houses After Life in the first Asclepius attributed Livelihood to the Second, Siblings to the third, Parents to the fourth, Children to the fifth, Injury to the sixth and Wife to the seventh. He finished with Death in the eighth. Given that Life began at the first, it was appropriate that it should end at the eighth and last house in this system.

Although Asclepius' system did not survive very long, a number of it's associations were adopted into the twelve house system by later Hellenistic writers

The Places according to Valens

In Book 4 Chapter 12 Valens gives a brief summary of the twelve places.. You can see how the systems of Hermes and Asclepius have merged into one that is recognisable to a modern Astrologer though it still has one or two 'oddities'

12.The Names of the Twelve Places. The Twelve-Fold Division.
Let us begin with

I the Ascendant, life, steering-oar, body, breath.

II Life, the Gate of Hades, shadowy, giving and receiving, association.

III Brothers, travel abroad, kingship, authority, friends, relatives, rents/revenue, slaves.

IV Rank, children, one’s own wife and older individuals, activity, city, home, possessions, lodgings, alterations, change of place, dangers, death, confinement, religious matters.

V The Place of Children, friendship, association, slaves, freedmen, the completion of some good deed or benefaction.

VI Slaves, injuries, hostility, disease, sickness.

VII The Descendant, marriage, success, an affair with a woman, friendship, travel.

VIII Death, benefits from the deceased, the Inactive Place, law, sickness.

IX Friendship, travel, benefits from foreigners, God, king, magnates, astrology, oracles, appearances of the gods, mystic and occult matters, associations.

X Occupation, rank, success, children, women, change, innovation in business.

XI Friends, hopes, gifts, children, slaves, freedmen.

XII Foreign lands, hostility, slaves, injuries, dangers, tribunals, disease, death, sickness.

Each Place acts in the way specified, and the nature of the Place in opposition also acts cooperatively. When the transmission of the year has been found, we examine the Place where the transmitter is found and the Place where the receiver is found (using the twelve-Place system described above and the properties of the sign and the Place).

The Lots

As well as using the Places for signification in the life of a person, the Hellenistic Astrologers used the system of Lots to add more detail and information. The Lots are known as Arabic Parts to modern Astrologers, but they were used 600-700 years before Arabic Astrology came into being.

Almost unique amongst the Hellenistic Astrologers, Ptolemy made little use of the Lots and hence the 'back to basics' approach in the Seventeenth Century, wrongly assumed the Arabic Parts were indeed an Arab addition to Astrology and therefore had to be removed from use. The one Lot or Part to survive was Fortune, because Ptolemy did use it. One of the transmissions from the Seventeenth Century is therefore the loss of the use of Lots in Astrology.

In fairness, even the later Arab authors thought that there were too many Lots/Parts in use. Al Biruni in the Eleventh Century, notes 97 Parts in common use and says it had gotten out of hand.

I'll look at the Lots when I revisit some of the charts but I'm not sure I'll have much to add about them, unless there's new material in Chris' latest lecture. For more information refer to the earlier sections of this thread.

I had a chart and preliminary reading set up but the 'owner' of the chart, wishes the details withheld (no problem) but hasn't responded to my PM about whether they wish to remain anonymous or not. So I'm reluctant to use it without full permission.

If anyone else (preferably someone who was not in round 1) wishes to join then I'll gladly accept an alternative chart. If not I'll fall back on the tried and tested 'celeb' chart.

Natal Reading

I've not heard anything from my volunteer and don't want to do a reading which has little or no feedback, so I'm going to go with the 'celebrity' approach. I've taken this from a challenge thrown out to traditional astrologers on another site.

I've posted this as another thread here:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?p=3769633#post3769633

Hello, Minderwiz.

Are you still looking for a volunter? I didn't read through all the pages of this thread, so I don't know if I qualify or how the reading is done, but I'm willing to give this a try and feedback, of course.

What do you need to do the reading? Natal chart or my dob/tob data?

FilleAspirant said:

Hello, Minderwiz.

Are you still looking for a volunter? I didn't read through all the pages of this thread, so I don't know if I qualify or how the reading is done, but I'm willing to give this a try and feedback, of course.

What do you need to do the reading? Natal chart or my dob/tob data?

Click to expand...

Yes!! I'd love to 'do' you. There's no need to read through everything first, though you might find the last few pages are useful (from when I resumed the thread).

What I need is:

Your date of birth: Day/Month/Year format

Your time of birth: hours/minutes - if you don't use the 24 hour format make it clear whether its AM or PM

Your place of birth: place/country

That's all. Don't bother with a chart, as I have to use the one that I generate from your info. If you want to keep your data private, then just PM me with it, and I won't disclose it on the thread.

Minderwiz said:

Yes!! I'd love to 'do' you. There's no need to read through everything first, though you might find the last few pages are useful (from when I resumed the thread).

What I need is:

Your date of birth: Day/Month/Year format

Your time of birth: hours/minutes - if you don't use the 24 hour format make it clear whether its AM or PM

Your place of birth: place/country

That's all. Don't bother with a chart, as I have to use the one that I generate from your info. If you want to keep your data private, then just PM me with it, and I won't disclose it on the thread.

Click to expand...

Going to PM you now and will read a few earlier pages.

Well I'm now recovered enough to continue this thread, though as my granddaughter is still giving restless nights to my daughter and her husband, there may still be some breaks in continuity. I am hoping to kick off tomorrow.

FilleAspirant - Chart basics

The next volunteer is FilleAspirant, who has been waiting patiently since Christmas. My apologies for the delay.

I've withheld her natal details but she was clearly born during daylight hours, as the Sun is in the ninth Place, but before the MC, so it was before noon. We therefore have a diurnal chart and the Sun is Lord of Sect.

Capricorn is rising but a very early degree. The Ascendant ruler is Saturn who lies in a late degree of Sagittarius. thus putting him in a place averse to the Ascendant (12th Place). This placement would hold even in a quadrant house chart, such as Placidus. The planets of sect are Sun, (in late Virgo in the ninth),

Jupiter, placed in the sixth Place in Gemini. Jupiter disposits the Ascendant ruler Saturn but is itself in Detriment as well as being averse to the Ascendant. However, Jupiter is in it's own Bounds, is rising and Direct Jupiter is the benefic of sect, so Jupiter should indicate where things go well. Jupiter is configured by trine to Venus (the out of sect benefic), The Moon (out of sect light) and Mercury. Jupiter squares the Sun in Virgo and is in an opposition by sign to Saturn. That opposition is a wide one, which weakens it, plus Jupiter and Saturn have some exchange of houses, as Saturn is Jupiter's Trigon ruler (Air by Day) and Jupiter is Saturn's Domicile ruler. There may be some begrudging co-operation between the two sect mates.

The final planet of Sect is Saturn, which, is in the twelfth place. it's own Joy. Saturn is also rising and Direct, though it is not in any of it's own places but at least it's in a place of a sectmate (Jupiter) and as stated above they have some exchange of houses through Trigon/Domicile.

So only the Sun is in a good place, and then in a Declining (Cadent) one. At least the Sun is in his own Joy. Both Sun and Jupiter are disposited by Mercury.

Mercury in this chart, is an evening star, setting after the Sun. This puts Mercury in the Nocturnal sect. Mercury is in Libra, in the tenth Place, so it is well placed in the chart. Mercury trines Jupiter and the Moon in the Second Place (Aquarius). With Mercury in the tenth place and Moon in the second, this might bring some income benefits to work. However as the Moon is changeable, these benefits cannot be relied on to be long term. Mercury is also opposed by Mars in the fourth Place. Again the opposition is wide but Mars is the out of sect malefic and also retrograde, so this is likely to be something of a source of problems. Mercury also rules the MC.

Of the Nocturnal planets The Moon is in the second Place where it is configured to the Ascendant and in a post ascensional place (succedent house). As well as the trines to Mercury and Jupiter, the Moon is configured to Venus by opposition and to Mars by sextile. The Moon is ruled by Saturn, the malefic of sect, so there may be mild difficulties, however as the two are in sextile this is not likely to mean serious difficulties and indeed may only show up as minor delays.

Venus, the out of sect benefic is in the eighth Place and is therefore not configured to the Ascendant. Venus is not in any of her own dignities or a dignity of a sectmate. She is however in the Domicile of the Sun, though not configured to him.

Lastly we have Mars, the out of sect malefic and therefore the potential major threat in the chart. Mars is in an angular place by domicile, and so is 'well' placed to affect events in the life, especially relating to family or domestic issues. Mars is retrograde but in his own place - Aries. Mars trines Venus in the eighth place and so is in a dominating trine to Venus. Mars will therefore tend to detract from the good that Venus does, though this will be mitigated through the trine aspect.

The Lot of Fortune is in the fifth Place in Taurus. Thus it is configured to the Ascendant and ruled by the benefic Venus. It is configured to its ruler by square but a square is better than no configuration at all and indeed a square puts Venus angular relative to the Lot. Venus also rules the tenth Place

Strongly placed planets,

Mercury 10th
Mars 4th
Sun 9th
Moon 2nd

Not in good places

Saturn, 12th
Jupiter 6th
Venus 8th

Position of planets relative to Lot of Fortune.

Jupiter 2nd
Venus 4th
Sun 5th
Mercury 6th
Saturn 8th
Moon 10th

The planets are better placed relative to Fortune than they are to the Ascendant, hopefully that indicates that one or more of them will attract good fortune.

In the next post I'm going to look at the Triplicity Lords of the Sect Light