astrology, karma & transformation

Minderwiz

Some good points Isthmus. I think the importance attached to Saturn transits stems from two things.

Firstly until 1781 no one knew that the trans Saturns existed. So Saturn represented the longest time clock in the heavens- transits of Saturn marked maturity, middle age and death.

Secondly, whilst it is possible to just about see a Uranus return, if you survive into your mid 80's, Saturn is really the outermost planet where the return is a meaningful marker of life's progress, and when it comes to Pluto we may see a the first sextile and square and if the Pluto in Leo generation are luckythat the first trine comes relatively early on in their 50s, but none of us will survive to the Pluto opposition to natal. We've only known about Pluto as a fact for something over 70 years, its difficult to build reliable evidence over that period of time to compare with theory.

What Astrologers are often looking for is a lifetime 'clock' something that strikes the important 'hours' of our lives. Saturn has perhaps the advantage of providing a clock that's not ringing every minute (like the Moon) or every 5 to 10 minutes like Mercury through Mars. Although they still may be important timers.

As a lifetime clock, Pluto transits may be of limited value. Transiting Pluto is likely to form only a limited number of major aspects to natal planets, whereas Saturn will make all major aspects to all natal aspects at least twice in an average life.

I'm not saying Pluto transits are things to ignore, they are certainly of great significance, as you have rightly shown and they may well symbolise and encapsulate those rare single moments in life when everything changes - but their value lies in that once in a lifetime possibility rather than regularity.

It comes down to what do you want to use for regular cycles of life and hence prediction. - Saturn's 29 year cycle is a good one, Jupiter's 11 year cycle also has strong advantages. Mars and the inner planets at most give two year cycles, which might be two short for important lifetime events. Uranus and beyond give only one lifetime at most in terms of cycle.
 

dadsnook2000

Random Comments.

ARE SATURN OR PLUTO OR ??? TRANSITS MOST IMPACTFUL ?
It has been my experience that just because someone has an aspect pattern and just because it is transited ---- it does not mean that something will happen. Really? Yes, empatically. I have seen some charts where certain aspect patterns seem to be "turned off." I have a daughter that is imune to her chart in terms of conventional astrological transits. To see what will or is happening you have to overlay a new-moon chart onto her natal chart. Whatever the new-moon position aspects will tell you exactly what she is going thru that month. Interestingly, she was born on the same day as a solar eclipse that covered our location, just a short time prior to the eclipse. In my own chart I ignore Pluto and aspects to it completely. Unfortunately I had a Jupiter transiting the mid-point of Pluto & MC (wild success) and nothing happened. No Pluto function.
***
YODS. I have Saturn in a yod configuration with Mercury and with Mars. Whenever this is activated I am either writing, researching or creatively producing something that impacts my career or 10th house. (Saturn in the 10th, Mercury in the 5th, Mars in the 3rd). Where the planets are (housewise) will often clearly spell out the possible ways that they can be expressed. My observation is that when you have aspects that are going active, look for the symbols to express in as many ways as fits with your life style or challenges.
*** SATURN AS A MAJOR LIFE LINE MARKER. Some of you may wish to check out the Moon by Secondary Progression. It moves close to the same rate that Saturn does by transit and often provides a nice counter-point to "just the Saturn hits."
 

isthmus nekoi

Thanks Minderwiz & Dave for your more experienced opinions :) Yes, I see now why Saturn transits make more sense in searching for developmental cycles... Perhaps looking at a Pluto cycle is more suitable for analysis on a mundane level. It also seems fitting that old Kronos should be the one we look to to mark out the stages of life doesn't it!

Hm, I guess natal Pluto is stronger in my chart than I previously thought and my earlier post is biased b/c of that. If I reach an average life expectancy, transiting Pluto will conj every other planet in my chart except the Jupiter/Saturn conj which is perhaps why it is so influential.
 

oceanpoetry

dadsnook, how do you calculate secondary progression of the moon? I have a software program that can run progressions for, but don't know what to put in to find "secondary progression".
 

isthmus nekoi

I'm not sure exactly how secondary progressions are calculated, but I think they're sometimes just called "progressions".
 

Moongold

I'm keen to know more about this. When I do a progressed chart on my computer software, I just assumed that the progressed moon was a part of this. Am I correct?
 

Minderwiz

There are several systems for progressions but secondary progressions are based on a day for a year method. That is the planetary positions (and indeed cardinal points) on the 20th day of life can be used to predict events/circumstances/experiences in the 20th year of life.

Most Astrological software programs can cope with these - you simply select secondary progressions from the range offered. Some Astrologers will work with progressed cusps as well as planets, others may keep to planets and possibly Ascendant/MC. However in principle you can progress any planet or point in the natal chart. If you select secondary progressions then all planets including the Moon, will be progressed in the same way.

On Secondary progressions the Sun moves about a degree a day so the progressed Sun moves a degree in a year. Mercury and Venus move slightly faster the rest, apart from the Moon move more slowly. The Moon moves around 12 to 14 degrees a day, so the progressed Moon moves this arc in a year.

The progressed Moon is therefore often used as a timer of events - through aspects to planets or points. Here you will need to apportion the movement over the year - about one degree per month. Again software will do this automatically but you can work it out with a calculator and an ephemeris.

One point for people who do end up using a calculator and ephemeris. In principle you are always measuring from the birth time. To avoid repeated maths there is a method of finding what is called the Adjusted Calculation Date - thereafter you simply take the 00:00 GMT planetary positions direct from the Ephemeris.