Not revealing printing sources...

ladybird said:

I can't even picture this, Sulis. I've had my deck that long but I don't think I use it as much as you do. If you can post a picture, please do.

I still like the thickness and sturdiness. I'll just have to shop around locally and see what's available.

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I can't do pictures I'm afraid because the cards are now fixed.. Basically the top layer of the back peeled a bit on a couple of corners and I've glued them back down with a dab of super-glue. To me the deck looks like new apart from that happening and I prefer cardstock that does show a bit of wear, I really like decks to get a worn in look.. If anything this deck feels a bit too much like plastic cards to me although at least they're not shiny.. I prefer a more 'whippy' cardstock like the stuff used in the CBD Tarot..

ravynangel said:

What's with this sense of ownership these days? As soon as something hits the public, it is like the public thinks the creator is an easy target for criticism and is obligated to answer to everything. If they don't want to reveal their sources, it's up to them. Last time I checked they were artists and creators, not business marketers and support for other creators or printers. They're not obligated to share anything and they're not being negative in not doing so either.

eta - this typing is appearing much more grumpy than intended, add a questioning, weird, need more coffee tone whilst reading please

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I totally agree about the ownership thing these days (not aiming this at you at all Ladybird).
I make bags and have a website and I've had people lift pages from my site and say they are their own then 'thank' me for the use of them and get very, very abusive when asked to take them down.
I've also had people ask me for my patterns and for instructions on how to make bags just like the ones I make and again, get quite stroppy when I said no and advised them do a bit of research and work it out for themselves.
To me, I did the work, I made the site and came up with the content myself and the same with the bags.. I think it's good to put the groundwork in yourself but there is an element of wanting everything instantly with the internet and also the feeling from some people that if it's out there they can take it..

I can understand the people at The Wild Unknown not wanting to give out the name of their printers and their reasons are completely valid, whatever they are.
I can also understand Ladybird asking if they'd mind passing that information on to her too.. I don't think it was wrong of you to ask at all Ladybird; you like the cardstock they used so enquired about it.. I'm sure they get lots of requests about it.

ladybird said:

It's true there are many printers where I live so I'm going to do the work and find out what they are capable of doing for my next project.

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i think you hit the nail on the head there, ladybird!
i'm just going to weigh in here as an independent jeweler who sells online: as many have said in this thread, there are a lot of copycats out there. i've had people ask where i get certain stones, what gauge wire i use to make X, Y or Z, or even if i would sell them a component so they could make one for themselves (!)...
while some of these queries are innocent, and while sometimes i feel like a weird miser or paranoid, secretive jerk; sourcing materials and trial-testing prototypes is WORK. it takes time, effort and resources to discover the good stuff that works for you, and it's up to the artist whether or not they want to share it.
i'm absolutely NOT saying that you did anything wrong, ladybird!! i'm just saying that i'm sure it's not personal

VioletEye said:

i think you hit the nail on the head there, ladybird!
i'm just going to weigh in here as an independent jeweler who sells online: as many have said in this thread, there are a lot of copycats out there. i've had people ask where i get certain stones, what gauge wire i use to make X, Y or Z, or even if i would sell them a component so they could make one for themselves (!)...
while some of these queries are innocent, and while sometimes i feel like a weird miser or paranoid, secretive jerk; sourcing materials and trial-testing prototypes is WORK. it takes time, effort and resources to discover the good stuff that works for you, and it's up to the artist whether or not they want to share it.
i'm absolutely NOT saying that you did anything wrong, ladybird!! i'm just saying that i'm sure it's not personal

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Thanks, VioletEye, for sharing, that makes a lot of sense. I totally get the copycat thing as I'm an artist as well and actually had 2 instances in the last year where folks copied my work. Needless to say, I was disappointed and would never want to copy another's work!

This wasn't at all my intention, as I wrote in my previous posts. When I went to print my last deck, I asked around where people printed their cards. A deck creator friend of mine pointed me to a local printer (which was what I ultimately chose) while a few others said PrinterStudio, TheGameCrafter or MPC, or another local printer where they lived. So again, since it was freely shared before I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask. I may be over-explaining myself at this point but I want to express my understanding about how "sacred" (for lack of a better word) the artistic process is and how much trial and error I've had to go through with my own designs.

I can see now how printing is a big part of that process for some folks. While for others it's as simple as sending images to PrinterStudio (which I did once!) so it was easier to reveal. Anyway, obviously the Wild Unknown had a bigger process than this with their deck and didn't want to share that...and that's okay, it was honestly weird for me at first but I get it now! I'll move on, be optimistic & perhaps find an even better card stock.

I really appreciate everyone posting and adding to the conversation. It has shed much light upon my original question.

oh ~ i just wanted to make sure that you know that i was not accusing you of copying, no! i was just saying that in the climate of copying, many artists/makers are protective of their sources... and on the other hand, many others are free with everything, it's all good
just chiming in with my experience! xo ~

ETA: best of luck on finding your dream cardstock!

VioletEye said:

oh ~ i just wanted to make sure that you know that i was not accusing you of copying, no! i was just saying that in the climate of copying, many artists/makers are protective of their sources... and on the other hand, many others are free with everything, it's all good
just chiming in with my experience! xo ~

ETA: best of luck on finding your dream cardstock!

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I totally got that! I was probably over-explaining myself....just to make sure. LOL!

And Thanks so much!!

I have had art copied and even had sketchbooks taken or pages from them taken at exhibitions... at one time people got very paranoid while I was doing my textile art studies, so much so that it got a bit OTT. In the end I stopped worrying... but my worki is unique one off stuff that is invented mostly as I go.

I can understand if someone has made a pattern, and a whole concept that is to be repeated, and is their source of income that they may be protective. At the end of the day though, it happens, it sucks, but a copy can never be genuine and a lot of buyers put store by that.

Printing...well I think it is probably no more than sensitivity of the artist. As soon as something becomes more commercial than just art for arts sake, this is bound to happen, whatever your field. Especially where it become political to boot.

The Wild Unknown isn't everyone's cup of tea cardstock wise...tho I am a fan, it seems to be a love or hate thing. I think the finish may have more to do with it than the card, but yes it does have a slight plastic feel that I notice more after playing with my old decks. One of my favourite cardstocks is my 30 something year old RWS... weighted a bit like The Wild Unknown but real paper card.

There is something about old card, old book smells, old paper texture, that cannot be reproduced, so it's up to us to create a new, that will one day be appreciated as a wonderful old!

For those who are curious about the printer information, the cards are printed in Hong Kong. A retailer called Free People auctioned off a Wild Unknown deck last year on eBay, and the second picture in the listing clearly shows a label printed in all capitals "MADE IN HONG KONG".

Here's a link to the original auction: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Free-People-Tarot-card-Set-The-Wild-Unknown-40-/121198805042

For those who can't see the picture I've also attached one with this post.

I work for a publisher, and although most of our books are printed in the United States, our "fancier" books are printed in Asia. That's because overseas printers can do certain types of color work and printing on specialty stock at a significantly lower cost than U.S. printers. That helps keep a specialty item affordable.

It's totally understandable why WU had the printing done in Asia. I'd rather have a high-end product (I adore their card stock!) at an affordable price (many self-published decks are more costly) than something of lesser quality at a higher price.

I also understand why they would want to keep this information close to the vest (for professional as well as political reasons). I have no issues whatsoever about where the deck (or book) is printed. I love everything about it, and I respect the artist's desire for privacy regarding this.

Winterchild said:

The Wild Unknown isn't everyone's cup of tea cardstock wise...tho I am a fan, it seems to be a love or hate thing. I think the finish may have more to do with it than the card, but yes it does have a slight plastic feel that I notice more after playing with my old decks. One of my favourite cardstocks is my 30 something year old RWS... weighted a bit like The Wild Unknown but real paper card.

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I didn't realize there were folks who disliked it?! I really like my 1970s RWS card stock too, Winterchild. I was just using it for a reading tonight! It smells of incense and that thick papery feel is just so soft & lovely.

EnchantedShadow said:

For those who are curious about the printer information, the cards are printed in Hong Kong. A retailer called Free People auctioned off a Wild Unknown deck last year on eBay, and the second picture in the listing clearly shows a label printed in all capitals "MADE IN HONG KONG".

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Thanks, dear ES, for sharing that. Hmmm...perhaps my husband was on to something there. But, no matter, like Pixna, it doesn't change how I feel.