Maybe It Is All About A Place Called Acre

Rosanne

I was looking at the sequence of the Majors from the Wheel of Fortune on. I was looking because Fulgour had suggested that Judgement was the Archangel Michael- which I agree with. Then the thought came to me what if all these cards +the Fool was the story of the Fall of Acre in the Holy Land? If this was a possibility, then in my mind it changes how I look at the Majors.
For example- the sort of Cosmic Completion that is described by the World card takes on a new meaning. Acre fell and not to the Christians! This new Jerusalem was now just a dream, so the Fool has to wander again without his spiritual home. In fact it all looks very pessimistic to me from this view.
Here is the page you can read about Acre from an eyewitness account. I can place these 12 Majors in the story even if you use Strength at 11. What do you think?
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/1291acre.html
~Rosanne
 

mac22

Rosanne said:
I was looking at the sequence of the Majors from the Wheel of Fortune on. I was looking because Fulgour had suggested that Judgement was the Archangel Michael- which I agree with. Then the thought came to me what if all these cards +the Fool was the story of the Fall of Acre in the Holy Land? If this was a possibility, then in my mind it changes how I look at the Majors.
For example- the sort of Cosmic Completion that is described by the World card takes on a new meaning. Acre fell and not to the Christians! This new Jerusalem was now just a dream, so the Fool has to wander again without his spiritual home. In fact it all looks very pessimistic to me from this view.
Here is the page you can read about Acre from an eyewitness account. I can place these 12 Majors in the story even if you use Strength at 11. What do you think?
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/1291acre.html
~Rosanne

I am following this discussing with interest, even though I respectively disagree that Michael is the angel on Judgment card. I'm in the Gabriel camp :D

Mac
 

Rosanne

Mac22 said:
I am following this discussing with interest, even though I respectively disagree that Michael is the angel on Judgment card. I'm in the Gabriel camp
Hi Mac22! :D Glad to have some feedback at least. Tell me why you think it is Gabriel? More importantly why is there water on the Judgement Card? I have wondered why the Towers on Death and the Moon? I understand the so called esoteric reasons- but would the users have made those connections, way back whenever? I realise this is a RWS forum and the cards Pamela painted follow to a great degree the iconography of the TdM, but her cards make it clear- at least to me, that this is a storyline. We get told it is a Grail quest in some way for ol man Waite- this seems like a hopeless case story from a Christian point of view. Of course that is if it is symbolically about Acre and its fall to the infidel. Makes me want to chuck in the whole spiritual concept of Tarot and go backwards to a game or fortune telling. ~Rosanne
 

tink27

Hi Rosanne,

Interesting concept, still musing over this one.

Found something interesting for you to look at and study more.

A painting by Van der Weyden, The Last Judgment. In this painting, the Archangel Michael weighs and judges the deeds of the dead.

http://mezzo-mondo.com/arts/mm/vanderweyden/WEY005.html
and this site as well

http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/w/weyden/rogier/08beaune/00beaun1.html

I'm sure there are many more sites on Van der Weyden's painting but thought I'd share what I discovered here.

tink :love:
 

mac22

Rosanne said:
Hi Mac22! :D Glad to have some feedback at least. Tell me why you think it is Gabriel? More importantly why is there water on the Judgement Card? I have wondered why the Towers on Death and the Moon? I understand the so called esoteric reasons- but would the users have made those connections, way back whenever? I realise this is a RWS forum and the cards Pamela painted follow to a great degree the iconography of the TdM, but her cards make it clear- at least to me, that this is a storyline. We get told it is a Grail quest in some way for ol man Waite- this seems like a hopeless case story from a Christian point of view. Of course that is if it is symbolically about Acre and its fall to the infidel. Makes me want to chuck in the whole spiritual concept of Tarot and go backwards to a game or fortune telling. ~Rosanne

There is indeed a story line thru the entire 78 card deck. As to the water this flows from the gown of the HP in card 2, interpreted various as: mind, memory, intuition, universal mind etc. As why I believe it is Gabriel two reasons: there is a balance among Archangels in the Tarot. Second this [Gabriel] is Church/Christian tradition. As for the towers there are always towers on the boarders of states - in this case of mental, mystical or spiritual states.

As for the Grail quest yes this deck definitely represents that.. :)

Mac
 

Rosanne

Thanks Tink27 for the links- that is a wonderful image of St Michael (Archangel Michael) The thread that talks about the two angels is :- [St. Michael ~ Judgement] in the RWS Forum.
Mac22- Thanks for telling me why you think Judgement is Gabriel. We can agree to differ.... and I won't hold that belief agin you :shhh: I also understand the symbols of the Towers from an esoteric point of view. From an exoteric viewpoint, they look like they have a recognisable landscape, and as the cards were printed for the public and not for just societal use- then those symbols might be needed to be plain and evident. My example would be the Archetype Death in the TdM is taken to be that of the times of the Black Death- very fitting- everyone understands how that time changed Europe. Acre changed the expansionist and reclaiming attitudes of Christians toward the Holy Land after Acre. So if The Universe in TdM is symbolically the New Jerusalem and that is echoed in RWS- not a very complete outcome from my eyes. ~Rosanne
 

Fulgour

The Knight of Mortality

And, we do have a very unique interpretation of "Death"
by the deck's designer and creator: a knight on a horse.

Not the usual skeleton, wearing an apron and babushka!
(Check closely on the TdM card XIII and you'll see this.)
 

mac22

Rosanne said:
Thanks Tink27 for the links- that is a wonderful image of St Michael (Archangel Michael) The thread that talks about the two angels is :- [St. Michael ~ Judgement] in the RWS Forum.
Mac22- Thanks for telling me why you think Judgement is Gabriel. We can agree to differ.... and I won't hold that belief agin you :shhh: I also understand the symbols of the Towers from an esoteric point of view. From an exoteric viewpoint, they look like they have a recognisable landscape, and as the cards were printed for the public and not for just societal use- then those symbols might be needed to be plain and evident. My example would be the Archetype Death in the TdM is taken to be that of the times of the Black Death- very fitting- everyone understands how that time changed Europe. Acre changed the expansionist and reclaiming attitudes of Christians toward the Holy Land after Acre. So if The Universe in TdM is symbolically the New Jerusalem and that is echoed in RWS- not a very complete outcome from my eyes. ~Rosanne

I would also remind you Gabriel's element is water. Archangel
Gabriel's name means 'God is my strength' Gabriel guides would be parents towards child conception or through the process of adopting a child. This archangel also helps anyone whose life purpose involves art or communication. Defender of the Element of Water and of the West. The Angel of Resurrection, Mercy and Peace and benefactor of Messengers.

Michael's element if fire. There is NO fire in the card.

Mac
 

Rosanne

I see what you mean about no fire depicted in Judgement- but how about an assumed fire. I am thinking that although Levi thought Judgement 'Resh' did not Waite think it 'Shin'?The Tooth of Fire bought down to purify? The Maternal letter Fire or the Spirit of the Primal Fire. (I am not certain of my ground here regarding Waite). I always thought that the angelic ruler of Hod was Michael. This is the path from Earth to splendour(Hod)
I have always thought, as I said earlier, that RWS was a Grail quest sequence, but it looks to me if this is Michael (I know people think different) then it shows something different- what could that be? ~Rosanne
 

mac22

Rosanne said:
I see what you mean about no fire depicted in Judgement- but how about an assumed fire. I am thinking that although Levi thought Judgement 'Resh' did not Waite think it 'Shin'?The Tooth of Fire bought down to purify? The Maternal letter Fire or the Spirit of the Primal Fire. (I am not certain of my ground here regarding Waite). I always thought that the angelic ruler of Hod was Michael. This is the path from Earth to splendour(Hod)
I have always thought, as I said earlier, that RWS was a Grail quest sequence, but it looks to me if this is Michael (I know people think different) then it shows something different- what could that be? ~Rosanne

Well if you want to assume a spiritual fire carried by all Archangels I suppose I could go along with that but since water & fire are opposites and there is SO much unmistakable water in trump 20 I just can't see Michael as that angel. Espically since we're talking 2 former members of the GD designing & drawing this deck.

With few exceptions [like Crowley] the members of the GD were pretty clear in their esoteric thinking as well as their magic. They wanted their symbols to be clear & unambiguous to the Initiate.

Mac