Guglielma / Manfreda

Ross G Caldwell

Hi eugim,

eugim said:
1-If she is,why is looking toward LE BATELEVR instead the card sequence so toward II to V ?

I'm only thinking of the Visconti Papessa, not the TdM. We don't know the order of the cards there. I don't think her direction of looking is important historically.

Ross
 

Huck

The Ferrarese variant of the Guglielma-story ...

... perhaps one should observe the Ferrarese-Hungarian relations and that Hungary became an important ally against the Osmans in the crusade business.

There is a Hungarian artist very long in Ferrara, still living in the 50's of 15th century. And there is this young Hungarian poet, which arrived around the same time, and who later became bishop in Hungary, and there is Matthias Corvinus, who took up a lot of Italian influences and finally married a Naples princess, sister of Eleonora (1476), wife of the Ferrarese duke Ercole d'Este.

And all these Hungarian delegations always crossed on their way to Naples through Ferrara.

One of the d'Este daughters, Isotta (she belonged to the 3 girls of the scene of 1.1.1441) married (after her first marriage to the heir of Montefeltro) into the Frangipani family and got with this connections to Croatia (which belonged to Hungary then) ... the marriage took place 1446 and might have been the key element for the new "Ferrarese Hungarian movement", also interesting cause the recent great crusade in 1444 (when Cesarini died).

http://trionfi.com/0/d/42
... see Niccolo-child Nr. 11

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusade_of_Varna

If there was a Ferrarese version of the Guglielma-story, it should have developed its importance with this date, likely not earlier. Naturally by this contact the Ferrarese should have learnt of a Bohemian/Hungarian princess, which came to Italy once - a story, which possibly was still living in Hungary/Bohemia (Matthias Corvinus became also King of Bohemia in personal union) and possibly was given more importance there than in Italy.

Florence (for the Florentian reception of Antonia Pulci) had an hero, who had successes in Hungary ... he was painted by Castagno ca. 1450 as one of 9 great persons.

"Pippo Spano was born Filippo Scolari in 1369, in Tizzano close to Florence, and died near Buda on 27 December 1426. His dazzling rise to power, initially in the service of the Primate of Hungary, Cardinal Demetrio Szecky (� 1387) and then in that of Sigismund, King of Bohemia (1361-1437), who appointed him as chief of his army, was the result of his incredible skill as a military strategist. He was also responsible for major improvements in the fortifications in the south of the country, where his exceptional capacity for mathematical calculations certainly stood him in good stead, as well as for a series of victories in the field, principally against the Turks between 1417 and 1425. Lord of Oroza, supreme Count of Timisoara (1407), administrator of the gold mines of the State and Knight of the Golden Spur of the Order of the Dragon, he exerted a great influence on the imagination of the Florentines, and in particular on Filippo Carducci, one of the most prominent politicians of the time."

1_3_01nagy.jpg



****
Actually it seems, that the negative, heretical side of the Guglielma-story would have been more or less totally forgotten, if not this friar in 16th century would have found these old documents. And actually Guglielma wasn't personally concerned with the problem - she was dead. Only a few "misunderstanding" followers had a real problem ... and it's not really clear, if the Northern countries really learnt about this follow-up to her appearance in Italy.
 

Ross G Caldwell

Huck said:
Actually it seems, that the negative, heretical side of the Guglielma-story would have been more or less totally forgotten, if not this friar in 16th century would have found these old documents. And actually Guglielma wasn't personally concerned with the problem - she was dead. Only a few "misunderstanding" followers had a real problem ... and it's not really clear, if the Northern countries really learnt about this follow-up to her appearance in Italy.

According to Newman, it was actually in 1425.

After a century of silence, St. Guglielma suddenly reemerges from the shadows around 1425, with a full-length hagiographic vita that bears only the faintest resemblance to her actual story. Her latter-day legend was the work of Antonio Bonfadini, a friar of Ferrara (d. 1428), as we learn from a contemporary's list of Franciscan writers. (83) Nothing is known of this author except that he also produced a collection of sermons and one other vernacular saint's life. But the very existence of the legend reveals that St. Guglielma's popular cult had not only survived the inquisition of 1300, but spread well beyond the confines of Milan. There is no way to know how widely she was venerated outside of her adopted city before 1300. If her cult had already spread to neighboring cities and villages, carried by Milanese travelers, it is possible that devotees outside of Milan remained either unaware of or undeterred by her posthumous heretication. But the reemergence of her sainthood in Ferrara is not totally surprising, for it is to that city that Galeazzo Visconti withdrew to join his wife's family during the Della Torre ascendancy of 1302-10. It would have been an act of piety and defiance alike if, to spite the inquisitors, he had brought the devotion to St. Guglielma with him. In any case, Bonfadini's text presupposes the prior existence of a cult without a vita. Somewhere in Ferrara a saint named Guglielma was being worshipped, perhaps even in a chapel dedicated to her name; but by 1425, no one remembered who she was. So the path lay open to invention.
Bonfadini's work may be his free literary creation, or it may incorporate tales already attached to the saint in popular legend. The story he tells is a version of the Calumniated Wife, one of late medieval Europe's best-loved folktales. Chaucer's Man of Law's Tale is a distant analogue. The story of Patient Griselda is related at a further remove, though it is a tale Bonfadini is more likely to have known through the versions of Petrarch and Boccaccio. Whatever his sources, the friar presents St. Guglielma as a daughter of the king of England, sought in marriage by the newly converted king of Hungary. The pious maid would have preferred to remain a virgin but consents in obedience to her parents. Once married, Guglielma "preaches so assiduously" to her new husband that he begins to delight in the stories of saints and the Passion of Christ. So she proposes a pilgrimage to the Holy Land, but to her disappointment, the king decides to go alone and leave her behind as regent. No sooner has the king departed than his brother, who is supposed to be protecting the queen, begins to make lustful advances to her. When she rejects them, he sets his heart on vengeance, which he obtains by going to meet the king as he returns from Jerusalem. With feigned reluctance, he tells the king that the queen has betrayed him with a squire, as everyone in the palace knows. He then vows that he will never return to court until the treacherous queen is dead. Without waiting to learn more, the king regretfully condemns his wife to death by burning--a sentence to be carried out by night to avoid public scandal. Fortunately, however, Guglielma's heartfelt prayers persuade her executioners that she is innocent, so they free her and burn an animal instead, presenting its bones to the judges along with some scorched rags of the queen's vesture.
Guglielma meanwhile escapes into exile, dressed in squalid peasant garb. One day as she hides in a forest, waiting to continue her journey by night, she is surprised in a thicket by hunting dogs. The huntsmen, seeing a pretty but shabbily dressed young woman alone in the woods, assume she is sexually available. But Guglielma appeals against them to the lord of the hunt, who turns out to be the king of France. With all her modesty and eloquence, she pleads with him to protect an honest poverella from abuse. Impressed by her courtly bearing, he decides she cannot possibly be a peasant and resolves to bring her home to his wife as a lady-in-waiting. Although the queen of France is initially put off by her vile clothing, she becomes deeply attached to Guglielma once she has seen her in court attire. In fact, when the queen bears her firstborn son shortly afterward, Guglielma is chosen to be his governess. All goes well until the seneschal, falling in love with Guglielma, asks for her hand in marriage. The king and queen are delighted with the proposed alliance, but Guglielma tactfully declines without acknowledging that she already has a husband. History now repeats itself, and the spurned seneschal, like the Hungarian king's brother, is bent on revenge.
An opportunity presents itself when the seneschal finds the young prince sleeping alone in Guglielma's chamber while she is at church. Quickly he strangles the boy and plants evidence pointing to Guglielma. The saint is thrown into prison, even though the king and queen cannot quite believe that she is guilty of so heinous a crime. "Rigorously examined," Guglielma swears she is innocent but cannot name the real murderer. The seneschal, however, stirs up the judges to cry for her death, saying she has bewitched the king and queen so they cannot believe in her guilt. Once again, however, God delivers Guglielma from persecution. The Virgin Mary appears to her in a dream, giving her the power to heal all sufferers who are truly repentant and willing to confess their sins. Then, on the night she is to be burned, two angels cause the executioners to fall asleep while Guglielma prays. As they slumber, the angels escort her to a castle by the sea, where they pay her passage aboard a mysterious ship. On the voyage Guglielma has occasion to display her gift of healing when all the sailors are suddenly afflicted with terrible headaches. After this they hold her in the greatest reverence. When the ship arrives at an unnamed shore, the captain escorts Guglielma to a nunnery where his aunt is abbess. The saint says she "is not disposed to become a professed nun," but happily agrees to remain with the sisters as their servant. To further inquiries about herself she replies only, "I call myself a great sinner; my people are those who wish to do the will of God." (84) During her three years at the convent as cook, portress, and lay sister, Guglielma continually heals those who come to her and develops a great reputation for miracles.
At last it happens that her Hungarian brother-in-law, who had sent her to the stake through slander, is punished by God with leprosy. By a strange coincidence the same fate befalls the seneschal of France. Both men repent of their secret sins and decide to go on pilgrimage to the famous healer, accompanied by their respective kings. Guglielma, learning of these imminent visits, disguises herself by putting on a nun's habit. She then entices her former enemies into making full confessions in the presence of the French and Hungarian kings, whom she has first bound by a promise to forgive the men no matter what they might reveal. In the presence of a large crowd, Guglielma makes the penitents kneel and cleanses the lepers. Finally she discloses her own identity and history, much to their astonishment. Returning home at last with her husband, she lives happily ever after, giving alms to the poor and establishing many churches and monasteries, until God calls her to everlasting bliss.
This hagiographic romance is a potpourri of motifs that, at first blush, have little to do with Guglielma of Milan but are more reminiscent of St. Ursula, Constance, Griselda, and even Guinevere. (85) There are nevertheless a few points of rapport with the historical Guglielma. The saint is said to be English, as in the 1301 Annals of Colmar, but her union with the Hungarian king recalls her East European origins. She is a victim of slander and unjust prosecution who--twice--narrowly escapes being burned at the stake, as her followers were. Though famed as a healer, she calls herself a sinful woman. Living much of her life in exile, she is deliberately mysterious about her native land. Finally, just as Guglielma of Milan made close friends at the convent of Biassono but never became a nun, the Guglielma of Bonfadini's legend spends several years at a nunnery but remains a laywoman. The friar does not specify the order or location of this convent: although his heroine moves from England to Hungary to France, her sojourn with the nuns is left so vague that she could be claimed by any that wanted her--and in the end, it was the convent at Brunate that did.
Bonfadini's vita did not circulate widely. In fact, it survives in a single manuscript, which remained with the Franciscans of Ferrara until the time of Napoleon. But either his text or one derived from it eventually reached a Florentine humanist, Antonia Pulci (1452-1501), whose version gave the tale far greater currency. Pulci was a playwright who wrote convent dramas; after her husband's death in 1487 she lived as a pinzochera in Florence, just as Guglielma herself had done two centuries earlier in Milan. The Play of Saint Guglielma, one of seven dramas in Pulci's canon, versifies Bonfadini's legend in rhyming eight-line stanzas broken up among the dramatis personae, and wisely simplifies its plot. (86) Omitting the episode at the French court, Pulci moves directly from Guglielma's first escape from the stake to her dream of the Virgin, sea voyage, and sojourn with the still unidentified nuns. She also modifies the end of the legend: the king of Hungary, Queen Guglielma, and her brother-in-law all resolve to leave the court and live as hermits, and since the king is childless, his barons are left to govern the realm as they see fit. Our unworldly playwright does not concern herself with the civil war that doubtless would have ensued. But in other respects her play remains faithful to Bonfadini's vita, and its publishing history shows that she knew what her public wanted. Aside from convent performances, thirteen editions of Saint Guglielma were printed in Florence between 1490 and 1597, in addition to three Sienese editions (1579, 1617, and one undated). Further seventeenth-century editions were published in Venice, Viterbo, Macerata, Perugia, and Pistoia, though--strangely enough--never Milan. (87)

Ross
 

eugim

Thanks for your replay Ross...
 

Huck

Somebody tells already around 1301, that Guglielma is from England.

That's strange ... and the later Ferrarese story seems to keep running on the "English" version.

Actually Guglielma had a sister, only one year younger than Guglielma ... :) ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnes_of_Bohemia

... Agnes of Bohemia, who much later became a saint.

Nearly she was married to Henry, son of Fredrick II, emperor, well known in Italy ... but this engagement was broken after 6 years.
Then she was brokered to marry the English king ... but the Emperor didn't like this connection, cause he wished to marry Agnes himself.

Agnes somehow refused (1230) and became member in a Franciscan order.

The Emperor Fredrick married indeed ... a woman from England
Isabella of England (b. 1214 - d. 1 December 1241). Marriage: 15 July 1235
... as 3rd and last wife

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_II,_Holy_Roman_Emperor


Is something confused? The Agnes-Story with the Guglielma-story?
Or came Guglielma really from England ... perhaps after a bad run of a marriage?

Btw: The mother of the girls Agnes and Guglielma, Constance, daughter of an Hungarian king, was by her mother grand-daughter of Renaud de Chatillon, King of Antiochia ... a rather brutal crusader, who was killed by Saladin personally.

The crusader-elements in the Guglielma-story so have some reality in the background.

Let's remember:
Renaud accompanied the French king in mid 12th century to the second crusade ... as far I know the story, he traveled with his wife, and his wife exchanged the man.
Eleanore of Aquitania was first wife of the French king and then she took the English king. And there was also an uncle ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_of_Antioch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleanor_of_Aquitaine

Alienor-d-aquitaine_et_jean_sans_terre.jpg


And Eleanor became then mother to Richard Löwenherz.

The Guglielma-story has the story of a woman and two men. It has the Lepra-phenemenon (this was a crusader experience) and the woman wishes to accompany the men to the crusade (as Eleanor did)

Guglielma's grandfather Renaud followed Raymond of Antiochia in his function as king of Antiochia. Raymond was killed by an uncle of Saladin and Renaud by Saladin.
 

eugim

Hello Huck (Or best Hell off here ! ) ...

1-Each time you and Ross crossed answers is a wonderful opportunity to get a ticket and enjoy the "Masterly Class" both do.
Its very out of sight the history background both have.
2-If Manfreda story isn t true,so what since her was established the "genitals inspection "
If wasn t for her,why ?
If it was strongly established that only man could become Pope ?
So why the hole at the Pope throne ?

eugim
 

Huck

eugim said:
Hello Huck (Or best Hell off here ! ) ...

1-Each time you and Ross crossed answers is a wonderful opportunity to get a ticket and enjoy the "Masterly Class" both do.
Its very out of sight the history background both have.
2-If Manfreda story isn t true,so what since her was established the "genitals inspection "
If wasn t for her,why ?
If it was strongly established that only man could become Pope ?
So why the hole at the Pope throne ?

eugim

... :) ... thanks for your compliments
.. but actually 14th and 13th century is a little foreign to us, at least to me

There are aspects of women liberation in Tarot history ... generally. In my opinion the oldest known cards (Visconti-Sforza) were made for women - mainly. It's recognizable by the person on the chariot - it's female.
It's recognizable by a Savoyan law of 1430: Men were not allowed to play cards, only when they played cards with women. It's recognizable, when one finds often enough old pictures with card-players and between them some women. It's recognizable by a contemporary picture (based on van Eyck) with 6 pairs of lovers: one drinks together, one eats together, one dances, one plays cards, one makes music and the 6th is very near to an erotical scene.

It's recognizable, when the early playing card notes in Ferrara mainly refer to Parisina, wife of Niccolo d'Este, and not to Niccolo himself.

It's recognizable, when Galeazzo Maria Sforza orders a few frescoes, and the frescoes of "the room, where the women eat" has as motif card players. It's recognizable, when Galeazzo Maria mainly is interested in chess, hunting, juist tournament, tennis and his capella - and not in cards, although we have these cards just from this court.

The state of women liberation in Italy is bad around 1420-25: Filippo Maria Visconti kills "lawful" his wife cause adultery. Niccolo d'Este kills Parisina - with the law on his side.

The state of women liberation in France (around 1400 and a little later) is much better. A weak king (crazy Charles VI), a stronger queen (Isabella). Christine de Pizan ... women literature. There is a general term, "la Dame France" as allegory for the country. There is Jeanne d'Arc, leading the men into a fight, which she wins.

The state of women liberation around 1328 is in England better than in France - in France the right on the throne couldn't go through female descendance, but in England it could ... the result of this seemingly minor difference is a 100-years-war and a deeper change of the king-dynasties in France (start of the Valois).
And with the time England had great women on the throne, Elizabeth I, Victoria and even nowadays it still has a monarchy with a queen. And France had alweays men as kings, and a greater revolution and now a republic.

And all these calamities go back to the little girl Eleanor of Aquitaine, which first married the French king, made a journey to the holy country and found the husband not good enough and exchanged him for an English king, which fulfilled his genetic mission properly ... many children and between them Richard Löwenherz, a brave fighter in the Holy Country.
All that in a Europe, which was a little bit overpopulated and which did need the crusades to expand.
Richard Löwenherz did his best, but more or less he lost the battle.

The overpopulation was not a local factor, inside the middle of Asia it happened also. Especially the region of Dschingis Khan prospered and the Mongols took parts of China. And then they followed the ways to the West, transporting playing cards - but also war and fight and finally the plague.

Women liberation in Aquitaine (nowadays France) resulted somehow in Albiginenser (which somehow had a more balanced model of the sexes) in the same region and the Beghine movement, which probably had their start in regions between France and England, somewhere in Belgium and Netherland, but spread everywhere in Europe. Both movements were - somehow - successfully suppressed.

If we observe the Gugliemiten and Guglielma, we shouldn't overlook the Beghines and the fact, that this was part of a greater movement. Also one should observe population decrease - which took place already in the second part of 13th century, but became stronger with some years of hunger in earlier 14th century and got dramatic forms with the plague in the middle of it.

When we hear of the fall of Akkon 1291, we've to add the fact, that the home countries of the crusaders couldn't deliver the masses of persons anymore, which made it possible, that Europeans could keep their feet in the Holy country.

And from this we understand the calamities of the following general 14th century. Population decrease, which endured till ca. 1450 and then started to increase again. And - as far Italy and his Tarocchi cards are concerned - then we see an explosive development of new technologies and a new standard of modern life. And a new freedom for women and women liberation - generally.
 

Ross G Caldwell

Hi Eugim,

eugim said:
2-If Manfreda story isn t true,so what since her was established the "genitals inspection "
If wasn t for her,why ?
If it was strongly established that only man could become Pope ?
So why the hole at the Pope throne ?

eugim

Look up "sedia stercoraria" (the dung-seat). You'll find stuff about it. Checking the testicles is probably a myth (remember, nobody but the Cardinals can witness the election process, so everything else is rumour).

The basic story is that there ARE two such marble chairs, but they are ancient Roman chairs which were probably used because of their venerable antiquity. Scholars think they were originally Roman birthing seats or just - as the name implies - toilets.

Ross
 

eugim

Btw, i m not Dan Brown,shit..

Helo Ross..
Thanks for your replay mon ami...
Here I m navigating with my drakkar.

Original Caption: "An illustration that accompanied an account by the Swedish traveller Lawrence Banck, of the coronation in 1644 of Pope Innocent X. Innocent is seated in the sedia stercoraria and having his testicles felt by a young cardinal as a way of ensuring that he is a man." The man appears to be exclaiming in Latin, "The pontiff has them," much to the relief of everyone.
http://www.priestsofdarkness.com/h-art/popegrope.jpg

http://www.priestsofdarkness.com/popes.html#f2


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

John Meador

Ross G Caldwell said:
Newman suggests a link between the earlier and later cults of St. Guglielma by noting the Galeazzo Visconti married an Este and moved to Ferrara in the 1320s (IIRC). She suggests the cult somehow stayed in Ferrara until the new legend was written.
Ross

On June 24 1300 he married Beatrice d'Este, daughter of Obizzo II d'Este. The following year the Visconti were however forced to leave Milan and he lived at the Este and Bonacolsi courts for several years.
http://www.freebase.com/view/guid/9202a8c04000641f80000000047ca0d4

Curiously, Mary Shelley's work: Valperga has a character, Beatrice of Ferarra & makes her the daughter of Guglielma.

http://books.google.com/books?id=cJ...&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

http://books.google.com/books?id=cJ...X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA141,M1

Galeazzo & Beatrice had a single son, Azzone who comissioned Giotto in 1336 to compose frescoes (now gone) depicting Vanagloria

-John