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Etteilla and LS Book of Thoth. Help!

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Etteilla and LS Book of Thoth. Help!


Hoping this is the right place for this enquiry.

I have the LS Etteilla, Book of Thoth. (Etteilla ver.lll ). The one-word divinatory meanings are written on each card but not in english, does anyone know where I might find a translation for them?

When in doubt = read the LWB, which I have done.
But the images and LWB meanings don't seem to match.... any help would be appreciated.

Bee
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If you buy the Grimaud Grand Egyptian Etteilla, the meanings are in both French and English... It isnīt exactly the same deck, but you can piece the meanings together...
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Hi Bernice

Its been a while since I read the site but the best reference to Etteilla that I know of is the Villa Revak site. Lee's review is great too; The Book of Thoth Etteilla Tarot, but it sounds like you may already have read that. And of course, our own Solandia has given the translation for the Majors here on Aeclectic.

Is this deck still available? I have the other Etteilla deck (Egyptian Gypsies Tarot) and have considered this one.
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Many thanks for responding Moonbow.

I've been browseing the Villa Revak site - it's really interesting. But I've got no further re. the french text (except for Solandias translations).

Very odd that the LWB gives meanings for a different version deck!

Bee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbow*
Hi Bernice

Its been a while since I read the site but the best reference to Etteilla that I know of is the Villa Revak site. Lee's review is great too; The Book of Thoth Etteilla Tarot, but it sounds like you may already have read that. And of course, our own Solandia has given the translation for the Majors here on Aeclectic.

Is this deck still available? I have the other Etteilla deck (Egyptian Gypsies Tarot) and have considered this one.
Thanks for this. It is worth bumping.
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Quote:
Moonbow: Is this deck still available? I have the other Etteilla deck (Egyptian Gypsies Tarot) and have considered this one.
Oops, missed this question (sorry). Yes, I think it must still be available because I got it very recently (Jan 09).

Bee
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Majors listed on wicce.com site


http://www.wicce.com/1890egyptien.html

1 -- Chaos (Le Chaos)
2 -- The Sun (La Lumiere)
3 -- The Plants (Les Plantes)
4 -- The Sky (Le Ciel)
5 -- Man and Animals (L'Homme et les Quadrupedes)
6 -- The Zodiac (Les Astres)
7 -- Birds and Fishes (Les Oiseaux et les Poissons)
8 -- Repose (Repos)
9 -- Justice (La Justice)
10 --Temperance (La Temperance)
11 -- Force (La Force)
12 -- Prudence (La Prudence)
13 -- The High Priest (Le Grand Pretre)
14 -- The Devil (Le Diable)
15 -- The Magician or the Juggler (Le Magicien ou le Bateleur)
16 -- Final Judgment (Le Jugement dernier)
17 -- Death (La Mort)
18 -- The Monk or Hermit (Le Capucin)
19 -- The Ill-Fated Temple (Le Temple Foudroye)
20 -- Wheel of Fortune (La Roue de Fortune)
21 -- The African Despot (Le Despote Africain)
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Grand Etteilla - Grimaud with French and English/Dusserre and LS


All cards

http://www.tarot.com/tarot/decks/ind...kID=9&cardID=0


Now the Lo Scarabeo Jeu des Dames version (Book of Thoth Etteilla Tarot) has this listing in the Little White Book and it's really close (but not exact) to Editions Dusserre keywords in English.

If you also check out the above links, you can let us know if the cards in the Grimaud Edition with English translations on the keyword cards also helped:

0. 78. Folly

1. Chaos.
2. Light
3. Plants and Birds
4. Heavens
5. Person
6. Stars
7. Birds and Fish
8. Rest
9. Justice
10. Temperance
11. Strength
12. Prudence
13. Marriage
14. Force
15. Magician
16. Judgement
17. Death
18. Hermit
19. Temple
20. Wheel
21. Carriage.

Minors- wands
22. King (wands)- Country Man
23. Queen (wands) - Country Woman
24. Knight (wands)- Departure
25. Knave/Page (wands) -Good Stranger
26. Ten- Treason
27 Nine-Delay
28. Eight-Country Party
29. Seven - Preliminary Talks
30. Six - Servant
31. Five- Gold
32. Four- Society
33. Three - Enterprises
34. Two - Sadness
35. Ace- Fall

Minors - Chalices/Cups
36. King - Blond Man
37. Queen - Blond Woman
38. Knight-Arrival
39. Knave/Page- Fair haired boy
40. Ten - Town
41 Nine- Victory
42. Eight-A blond girl
43. Seven- Thoughts
44. Six-Past
45. Five- Inheritance
46. Four - Troubles
47. Three-Success
48. Two-Love
49. Ace - Table

Minors - Swords
50. King - Legal profession
51. Queen- Widowhood
52. Knight- Military
53. Knave/Page - Lack of Foresight
54.Ten -Tears
55. Nine -Clerical (just defiance)
56. Eight - Critical
57. Seven - Hopes
58. Six - Journey
59. Five-Loss
60. Four - Solitude
61. Three - Removal
62. Two - Friendship/Falsity
63. Ace -Extreme
Minors - Pentacles
64. King (Pentacles) - Brown haired man
65. Queen (Pentacles) - Brown haired woman
66. Knight (Pentacles) - Utility
67. Knave/Page (Pentacles) - Brown haired boy

68. Ten - Home
69. Nine - Effect
70. Eight - Brown-haired girl
71. Seven - Money
72. Six - Present

73. Five - Lover
74. Four - A Gift

75. Three - Noble
76. Two - Trouble
77. Ace - Perfect Contentment
78 (see beginning) (Madness/Folly of the Alchemist)

Hope that helps.

Cerulean
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Talking Grand Etteilla


Mlle Lenormand started in her teens with this specific deck of 78 cards (lames). I have an orginal one from Grimaud France from 1900 in Museum quality condition. I also have the book that goes with reading an Etteilla, all in French of course and dated of 1940. My grand father was a freemason and it was part of the 'family' collection.

Each card has its key word and its reversed key word. For example:

59-Perte (loss) and reversed Deuil (mourning)
74-Un present (a gift) and reversed Cloture (hedge)
47- Reussite (success) and reversed Expedition (expedition/venture)
27- Retard (delay) and reversed Traverses (crossings)

The wands have freemasons symbolism pictured with nails.
The Coins have astrological symbolism using sun, moon and greek gods such as mercury, apollo (sun) etc... North and south nodes as well as the part of fortune are indicated. Notice that there is no Uranus, Neptune and Pluto!

The meanings are very different than in our Tarot the way we know it today. And the reversed meanings of the Etteilla in most cases have nothing to do with being the opposite of the straight up meanings. Sometimes it is a nuance such as Loss vs Mourning while sometimes it is very different like 71- Argent (money) vs Inquietude (worries). The idea of reading the Tarot up and reversed comes from the Etteilla system. However readers translate the reversed meanings as the opposite to the upstraights' but the Etteilla system isn't that simple.

The major arcana are also complex. Some like the 18-(the hermit as we know it today) is 'traitre' both up and reversed. It means 'traitor' in English! 20-(the wheel of fortune as we understand it today) is Fortune (do you need a translation?;-)) and reversed is 'augmentation' which means 'increase'. 12-(the temperance) is La Prudence which means Wisdom and reversed it is 'Le Peuple' meaning 'The People'. On that card, notice there is an astrological sign on the top left side of the picture, it is the mark of the pisces.

Let's complicate a bit more...7-Appui (support) and reversed Protection (you can guess this meaning?). The Libra sign is noted on the top left of the picture. But notice the top right inscription: 5.Cre (this is referring to the 7 days of creation in the first testamen!). How do we know that? Well let's see, take card 6-Nuit (night) reversed Jour (day). Virgo sign noted and the 4. Cre.

Let's continue...2-Eclaircissement (enlightment) vs Feu (fire). Note on the top/left the Taurus symbol and on the top of the card we read: 2e. Element 1e. Creation (ah now we have it!) translation: second Element, first creation! Make sure you do translate Eclaircissment into enlightment it is not clearing up! Are you hanging in there? 3-Propos (Intentions/words) vs Eau (water). Top/left we have the Gemini astrological sign and on the top of the card: 1.El (first element) 3e. Cre (third creation).

Ok let's do this one: 4-Depouillement (That is a hard one to translate in one word as it has several meanings, being bare, analysing and ascetism) vs Air (AIR!). Top/left is Cancer symbol and on top we have 3e. El (third element) and 2e. Cre (second creation). Are you still doubting? Well let's do this one then just to confirm things for you...8- Etteilla (no translation here!) vs Questionnante (female inquirer/consultante). Top/left is Scorpio symbol and on the top/right is said: 7.repos meaning 7.rest!

So let's summarize and please bare with me:

2-Enlightment Fire (picture of the star again but pay attention to what surrounds it, it is like sperm. CREATION. the little children on the bottom are holding and about to kiss in front of some altar (no it is not a fireplace!))second element first creation Taurus
3-Intentions/words Eau first element third creation Gemini
4-Ascetism/analysing (a naked woman-repeating theme doing some alchemy with the mixing of the content of the jars while in the sky set saturn, mars, mercury, venus, jupiter and moon astrological symbols! notice the circled star that seems to try to say something and the strange presence of the butterfly symbolizing rebirth) Air third element second creation Cancer

5-Voyage (Travel) vs Terre (Earth) Earth fourth element sixth creation Leo
(notice other signs inside of the picture, aquarius/scorpio-phoenix being its actual animal and taurus/leo) Voyage should be understood as beyond worlds (pay attention to the picture of a serpent going full circle travelling the different zodiac signs and animal symbols while the woman is standing between two pyramids symbolizing two worlds!)
6-Nuit (night) (note the moon and the sun and two astrological symbols inserted aries and libra the opposite of each other as venus/mars ying/yang) fourth creation Virgo
7-Appui (support) (picture refers to prehistorical times and the evolution of species, notice the serpent/snake again!) fifth creation Libra
8-Etteilla (naked woman with an aura energy field!) seven. rest and Scorpio.

Now you are going to ask: what about the 1- card!? Here it is!
1-Etteilla (No naked man here!!! Just the brilliant sun in its whole mighty!) vs Questionnant (male inquirer, consultant) Aries astrological symbol.

Based on the words written on 1 and 8, those two cards can be used as key cards to represent the person who is asking for the reading. Some people have question my system of key cards thinking it was a complete invention but not really...you just need to know the Etteilla's system to understand others were using that notion way before I was born. Etteilla was one of them!

The wands associate with travel, creativity and communication. The Coins being business, trade and money. You need to understand that the Etteilla was used to decode the future but also to open the door for revelations. It was a tool for initiation in secret societies and esoterism. The original deck has a very thick consistency in its 'lames' (thick pieces of paper) and can't be shuffled. It does not have flexibility. It is mixed up lying flat on the table (original tarots were in wood thin plates) and then cards are chosen or ensembled in a specific way to create a spread.

I hope you found my little insertion somewhat interesting.

Blessings!
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Cerulean and Sylvie,

Thank you so much for posting re. this deck.

Such a lovely surprise to find your posts here today, I've copied them so that I can print them out. I've sat and shook my head over this deck a number of times. Being mono-lingual is a great drawback.This will open the cards up to me now.


The full deck translations, all in one place, are really helpful Cerulean. And I'll check out the links, many thanks. Especially the translations for the Courts and Pips.

Hi Sylvie. It is interesting that the Etteilla card reversed meanings arn't the opposite of the upright ones. That's something I'm pleased about, I've never been happy about reversed/opposite meanings which is why I don't usually use reversals. (Now I can).

Unfortunately the LS 'Book of Thoth' cards don't have the astrological or creation markings. But your post opens up further investigation for me.
Quote:
I hope you found my little insertion somewhat interesting.
Very interesting Sylvie. I did not know of the freemason connection.

Thank you very much, both of you.

Bee
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