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Etteilla and LS Book of Thoth. Help!

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I'm glad to see this thread and conversation continuing, although I'm puzzled as I thought Bernice wanted the meanings to the Book of Thoth deck not the Grand Etteila. My Grand Etteilla deck already has the English meanings printed on it (mine is from the 60's), I found the Element/Creation abbreviations interesting though. I really should study that aspect of the cards a bit more, so thanks for that piece of information Sylvie.
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Quote:
...I thought Bernice wanted the meanings to the Book of Thoth deck
This is true .

The french text on the Book of Thoth cards and the LWB don't always mean the same thing. Even with my bare scrap of french, I can see that. No idea why they've done this

But I'm happy to have any translation of french words, on the off-chance that some will match up to the text on this deck. More than happy - grateful!

Bee
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Let me get this straight (before I exert myself.)

You have the LS book of Thoth Etteilla deck and you want the words on those actual cards translated ????

Gimme a little while, if that's it. Can do
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Talking Grand Etteilla


If you would like to see scans from that particular deck email me your email address and I will forward you a sample for your enjoyment!
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Talking Grand Etteilla part 2


The one I have is very unique as I just browsed around and realized that no picture comes close to show the one I possess. If other Etteilla owners are interested particularly if you own an original one from late 1800 or beginning 1900. Mine has the tax stamp on one of its lames and is still coming from its original box with Grimaud address!
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I think the reason it was suggested that the Grand Etteilla might be helpful is because some of the words found on the Book of Thoth Etteilla are also on the Grand Etteilla with English translations.

I remember trying to translate the Book of Thoth Etteilla myself once upon a time and some of the words simply can't be found in modern dictionaries or at Babelfish so the Grand Etteilla, while not a perfect solution, does come in handy to some extent.
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Oooh! Lot's of responses - thank you people.
Gregory, your offer is gratefully, and gracefully, accepted Many thanks.


Hello Sylvie,
Your Grand Etteilla deck sounds really interesting. I'm sending you a pm re. the scans. Thank you.


Hi abrac,
Quote:
I think the reason it was suggested that the Grand Etteilla might be helpful is because some of the words found on the Book of Thoth Etteilla are also on the Grand Etteilla with English translations.

I remember trying to translate the Book of Thoth Etteilla myself once upon a time and some of the words simply can't be found in modern dictionaries or at Babelfish so the Grand Etteilla, while not a perfect solution, does come in handy to some extent.
Yes, I agree with you. The Book of Thoth card-text is as much a mystery as the deck!

Bee
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Grand Etteilla 1910 by BP Grimaud


WWPCM01612
"Grimaud" (France)
deck "Grand Etteilla" (78 cards)
WWPCM01612/01: edition 1910

http://a.trionfi.eu/WWPCM/decks03/d01612/d01612.htm

This link sometimes goes down, but the WWPC number, I thought was referencing the "Wonderful World of Playing Cards" and if so, the playing card historians list this edition as 1910. It's exciting to hear of a 1900 version
now!

We might want to start another thread on these exciting sharings of Freemasonry and Etteilla meanings. My edition Dusserre and LS booklets and perhaps our combined resources might come up a few new things. Paul Huson's collective Etteilla meanings in Mystical Origins of the Tarotdo not have the freemasonry subtexts--but the edition Dusserre Book of Thoth Jeu des Dames instructions mirror the BP Grimaud later issued instructions in one of their 1969-ish editions....and look really like my Lismon 1890 Book of Thoth French instructions.

(And as an aside, likely the traceability to Papus' Divinatory Tarot meanings .It maybe the later 1920's Knapp Hall Tarot might have had elements of the Papus and Etteilla Free Masonry minors.)

When we get a chance, we also might want to revisit historic editions of the Etteilla patterns, from the I, II and III (Jeu des Dames) and the offshoots--for there are Italian, French and Spanish offshoots of both Jeu des Dames and Jeu de Princesse--I have many of the reproductions, with two noteable exceptions.
----------------------------------------------------------------
My Lismon Etteilla editions with the 1890 tax stamp was supposedly warehoused for years--usually sold as a set with the Book of Thoth by Julia Orsini. The House of Grimaud bought the stock, said the seller, a playing card historian and seller in Germany...

In the thread of the Lismon Etteillas, the 1890 stamp was applied, no matter what the variations--and there are variations. In appearance, it is more like the early version of the Grand Etteilla of Grimaud, but the watercolor washes seem hand done on stencil prints.

Kaplan cites the Lismon Etteillas--even with the 1890 tax stamp--as circa 1900. It may be the conservative will assign a later date to the BP Grimaud versions out there.

I'll check his auction catalog of two years ago to see if he sold any BP Grimaud editions and to see if they are pictured.

Best,

Cerulean

P.S. Some related threads with an actual Jeu des Dames (trimmed) and other
old Etteilla deck samples

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread...ghlight=lismon
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From Mary Greer's Timeline - Etteilla Astrological attributions


http://www.tarotpassages.com/mkgtimeline.htm

1789 Publication of the first Etteilla deck. Available as the Grand Etteilla deck from Grimaud since 1982. The Trumps and all astrological correspondences are as follows:

1 - Etteilla - Le Consultant (Male). Aries. (Papus says this is "special to the Tarot of Etteilla" - I'd make it the Bateleur (as does Edmond))

2 - Eclaircissement (Enlightenment/Fire). Taurus. (Papus: Sun)

3 - Propos (Discussion/Water). Gemini. (Papus: Moon)

4 - Dépouillement (Loss/Air). Cancer. (Papus: Star)

5 - Voyage (Travel/Earth). Leo. (Papus: World)

6 - Nuit (Night/Day). Virgo. (Papus: Empress - I'd make it the Popess)

7 - Appui (Support/Protection). Libra. (Papus: Emperor)

8 - Etteilla - Le Consultante (Female). Scorpio. (Papus: Popess - I'd make it the Empress)

9 - La Justice (Justice/Jurist). Sagittarius. (Papus: Justice)

10 - La Tempérance (Temperance/Priest). Capricorn. (Papus: Temperance)

11 - La Force (Strength/Monarch). Aquarius. (Papus: Force, i.e., Strength)

12 - La Prudence (Prudence/The Masses). Pisces. (Papus: Hanged Man)

13 - Mariage (Marriage/Union). (Papus: Lovers)

14 - Force Majeure (Absolute Necessity/Absolute Necessity). (Papus: Devil)

15 - Maladie (Illness/Illness). (Papus: Bateleur - I'd make it the Pope - it shows the same person as performed the Marriage (in bishop's fish-hat) holding a wand over an altar table with ram's heads on the corners; one of the reversed meanings is "Mage".

16 - Jugement (Judgment/Judgment). (Papus: Judgment)

17 - Mortalité (Death/Nothingness). (Papus: Death)

18 - Traître (Traitor/Traitor). (Papus: Hermit)

19 - Détresse or Misere (Poverty/Prison). (Papus: Tower)

20 - Fortune (Fortune/Raise). (Papus: Wheel of Fortune)

21 - Dissension (Disagreement/Disagreement). (Papus: Chariot)

68 - Ten of Coins = Part of Fortune

69 - Nine of Coins = South Node

70 - Eight of Coins = North Node

71 - Seven of Coins = Saturn

72 - Six of Coins = Jupiter

73 - Five of Coins = Mars

74 - Four of Coins = Moon

75 - Three of Coins = Venus

76 - Two of Coins = Mercury

77 - Ace of Coins = Sun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvie Steinbach
The one I have is very unique as I just browsed around and realized that no picture comes close to show the one I possess. If other Etteilla owners are interested particularly if you own an original one from late 1800 or beginning 1900. Mine has the tax stamp on one of its lames and is still coming from its original box with Grimaud address!
I have a pre 1900 copy of this deck (earlier then the 1910 deck.) What do your backs look like?
Top   #20


 


 


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