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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartomancer View Post
It this apple of discord really a bone of contention?
Ever since Eris threw it. Pardon the joke.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartomancer View Post
Samson didn't make it into the heavens, but Hercules did.
Early illustrations of Hercules show similarities to the Strength card.

http://www.kristenlippincott.com/ass...nis-cael11.pdf

But, the Chariot card is easily seen in the stars of Auriga, the Charioteer.
http://www.kristenlippincott.com/ass...-Sept-2011.pdf

And who can ignore the Empress, who is seen in the stars of Queen Cassiopeia?
http://www.kristenlippincott.com/ass...nis-caeli2.pdf

The Death card is seen in the stars of Sagittarius.
http://www.kristenlippincott.com/ass...is-caeli19.pdf

These aren't "lost constellations". These are in plain view in the night sky.
The Tarot trumps are simply pictures of constellations. Can you disprove that?

- Cartomancer (Lance Carter)
he doesnt have to bother because you disproved it yourself . Plain view in the night sky can look like anything

here is Auriga

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=c...h=527&dpr=1.25

please point out the chariot (without you drawing one randomly over stars to connect things how YOU see them) .

Hint : Tarot - Chariot ... Asterism - Charioteer.

Cassiopeia ? Please select the one most like the Empress tarot card.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=c...h=527&dpr=1.25

One holds an orb a symbol of worldly power... because she is an empress. The other holds a mirror because ... ah , go and look up some mythology .


and however those pics in the links you gave relate to the tarot death card is beyond me

so , please show which one of these looks like the death card

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=c...ell=1&tbm=isch

You must have given up on the 'sickle in the stars' idea (remember that one? ) and replaced it with a bow and arrow ?

Please show me the death card that looks like a half horse half archer here

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=D...0card&tbm=isch


You seem to just put up pictures and make declarations with no logical or rational threads between them, supposing it is a clear demonstration ( ? ) and THEN you ask if people can ' disprove that' ? ? ?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
...and however those pics in the links you gave relate to the tarot death card is beyond me
so , please show which one of these looks like the death card

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=c...ell=1&tbm=isch

You must have given up on the 'sickle in the stars' idea (remember that one? ) and replaced it with a bow and arrow ?
I haven't given up on the 'sickle in the stars' idea.
You can see an animation of this here:

SATURNUS = Corona Australis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um0uM9ifw5Y

Please also see this post in regard to the "lost constellations", which should probably be called "former constellations" or obsolete constellations. You may not be able to see these constellations in the animations that I have created, but world experts do and I have been invited to publish this discovery. There is still a mountain of graphics work to do on this project, so please be patient, but ask questions as well, for the answers are in the stars.

50+ Former Constellations Discovered:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=219989
SATURNUS = Corona Australis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um0uM9ifw5Y

These posts have links to ancient star maps with constellations that resemble Tarot figures:

Who is the Empress?
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=220221

Who is the Charioteer?
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=220220

Who is the Fool?
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=220214

A rendition of the Death card in Sagittarius:
http://piecework.deviantart.com/art/...EATH-394786107

- Cartomancer (Lance Carter)
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I may be a layman, but the inferences you make don't seem to add up. The pictures don't align with the respective constellations in any appreciable manner. The Empress seems like a huge stretch, when using the same stars one could come to almost any image. Heck, it's a damn good story, but you don't really make the connection from Cassiopeia to the Empress. You just tell the story, and then say it is proof, which it really isn't. I can understand that to you it looks obvious, and the mythological connections you make are certainly interesting, but again these things don't add up to any correlateable or noticeable rule.

I've seen material purporting that the images are talismanic that is a lot more esoteric yet makes much more sense.
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I think the internet is broken, that last link 'A rendition of the Death card in Sagittarius:' doesnt seem to work.

But hey, if there are 'world experts' supporting you .... then ....

{Chronos carries a sickle (like the Death card) in the old constellation Saturnis which is the present constellation of Corona Australis in the video, yet you say the Death card is in Sagittarius ? }
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♉♌♏♒


Legend has that the Crab of CANCER had been sent by Hera to harass Herakles as he fought the Lernean Hydra and she set it among the stars after he’d crushed it underfoot. In that 2nd of his labors, Herakles was aided by his nephew and charioteer, Iolaus – a technicality which King Eurystheus exploited to press Herakles into his 11th labor. That he was required to slay a dragon in both labors lends a certain symmetry to the mythic cycle of this Hero’s journey seen as a whole.

In my previous post I described how the astrological glyph for CANCER can be viewed as a 2-d cross-section of a the caduceus’ twin serpentine coils. In this sense the Wall represented by the Hebrew letter HETH may be viewed in relation to aforementioned Square centered perpendicular to the axis of Hermes’ staff. The 6 and 9 of CANCER then appear to spin together within that 2-d plane frame around the serpents as it moves “up” through the “air” unto the opposite wall of a Cube. Though, to be fair, one can only imagine this action as taking place within the lattices of the qabalah tree before one may actually see it upon opening the “mouth” of one’s own “eye”.

I suspect the Crab of CANCER is an allusion to the spinning action of a Crab seen when tossed into a body of water, except that this crustacean was set by Hera (“Air”) in the sky. Whether one views the crustacean within the pool beneath the towers of The Moon as indicative of Cancer itself, or merely its reflection from above, one may still appreciate its connection to the dragon. In either case, however, the correspondence of Tarot’s 18th triumph to the Hebrew letter Qoph poses an interpretative challenge in its attribution to PISCES – the two fish flowing from The Star’s Aquarian jugs. Yet, again, if we consider this puzzle’s enigmatic connection to Khnum-khufu’s Great MER at Giza (30˚N), once we view the qabalah tree’s point-of-origin from a “higher” dimension the attribution demonstrates a distinct geometric logic:

10²
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-REdC2F2JEI...s1600/7-11.jpg

√3 + √3 = 3.46
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4LLMY7JXNj...oots,+brah.jpg

(√3 + √3) x10² = 346 = 1 draconic year
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draconi...onomical_years

Thus, the Two Fish demonstrate a numerological connection to the length of the “dragon” year – a temporal cycle directly linked to the lunar nodes of its’ Head ☊ and ☋ Tail, and fundamental to the occultation of Sun and Moon during their eclipse. As such, the iconography of The Moon portrays a referentiality between the letters (numbered 0-21) partitioned and recombined within the latticework of the tree. As such, the interplay of wolf and dog pose a kind of “talismanic riddle” in alchemical emblem concerning the Star Regulus and its many illuminating puns.

Seen another way, one might even appreciate how the driver expelled from his chariot (Auriga) nonetheless has a goat perched by his head, whilst cradling her two kids in hand: ♑=Eye
http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.p...56&postcount=2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yygdrasilian View Post

I suspect the Crab of CANCER is an allusion to the spinning action of a Crab seen when tossed into a body of water,
Really? That must be a northern hemisphere thing. Because I have never seen a crab spin when tossed into a 'body of water'. All those years fishing .... since a small child, all those crabs caught, kept thrown back, released, thrown in pots of water to cook, and also as a diver and spearfisher ... never once have I seen a crab spinning.

Or maybe this is some rare species of crab , the Norwegian spinning blue crab ?

Really! ... People are just pulling stuff out of the air.

No! Wait .... I found one! I take it all back!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-eA2VQWqcY
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V.I.T.R.I.O.L.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
Really? That must be a northern hemisphere thing. Because I have never seen a crab spin when tossed into a 'body of water'. All those years fishing .... since a small child, all those crabs caught, kept thrown back, released, thrown in pots of water to cook, and also as a diver and spearfisher ... never once have I seen a crab spinning.

Or maybe this is some rare species of crab , the Norwegian spinning blue crab ?
Really! ... People are just pulling stuff out of the air.
Perhaps it is unique to a certain species …or I’m just imagining it. I’d swear I’ve seen them rotate upon descent when kicked off the boat in the Gulf of Mexico and the Pacific, but that was a while ago. Until I’ve seen it again I’ll defer to your experience - though I suppose it would be more fitting to observe a species native to the Mediterranean or Red Sea. In any case, thank you for pointing that out.

Nonetheless, my other hypotheses concerning Heth’s “Wall” framing a cross-section of the caduceus’ serpentine coils ♋ as the Chariot of “EL” ascends the tree remain consistent.

Another possibility I’d considered was the decapod morphology of both the Crab and Crayfish – their ten-legs being a possible allusion to the ten points of the tree – but that would be rather obscure. Yet, if one accepts a likeness between their claws and two compasses, then a decapod would synch well within 2 circles – particularly if joined by a single radius.

In general, I’ve found the selection of creatures in the zodiacal menagerie usually proves poetically apt, possessing an instructive value with respect to each glyph’s function within their broader shared context - as in the thrust of a Ram’s Head giving momentum to the square, an Archer’s arrow pointing the way, or the cleave of Twins joined/separated along a sagittal line of bilateral symmetry. So, if I have indeed dubiously pulled the rotational motion of a crab out of the air, what other rationale might there be in utilizing one with Cancer’s 69? Given the constellation’s proximity to Canis Minor & Canis Major, the glyph my refer to a kind motion like that of Laelaps – a dog that could always catch its prey – to the Teumessian Fox – an animal that could never be caught. But that still wouldn’t explain a Crab.

Naturally, some allusions are harder to grasp the further one is from their native context or the less familiar one is with their observable behavior and characteristics. Since we are looking at a set of glyphs which combine to build a Cube from the Square, perhaps the cyclical motion implied by Cancer ♋ alludes to something distinctive about its life cycle - like how it moults one shell for another, or walks “side-ways”. Both of which seem poignant in this context. Crabs are most common to intertidal zones – where earth and water meet, and are observably affected by the Moon’s influence upon the tides – so it also possible that they alluded to a pull from heaven above as seen below.

Likewise, Karkinos, nipping at Herakles, was crushed under Foot and then set among the stars – so we ought consider how its glyph fits with respect to the Foot within the alphabet, ☽=Gimel=☾, as it stands upon the ‘Foundation’ (Yesod) below and atop the dragon’s head above. http://www.theoi.com/Ther/Karkinos.html

CANCER, being the Moon’s domicile, or “realm”, is represented with a glyph that may be seen as the relative motion of Earth’s lunar nodes to one another as they precess around the ecliptic during the course of 1 draconic period. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_node

Though, from a geocentric perspective, the glyph might just as easily have represented the Sun (6=Tiparet) and Moon (9=Yesod) racing around The World.

In addition, as with a certain journey through the qabalah tree, the Crab’s timing within the calendar may be viewed as taking a cyclical course through the measure of the Fish, starting approximately at the end of the 173rd day of the year (√3 = 1.732…) and ending on the 203rd day: 22/7 ≈ π
http://en.wikhipedia.org/wiki/Bell_number

This same time period possessed an even more vital significance to the Black Land of Kemet, coinciding with the surging inundation of the Nile through its twin kingdoms. Being that this also saw the Sun reach its ecliptic zenith over the Tropic of Cancer at summer solstice, we might likewise view the it coming full circle from its fullest within the vesica piscis: an illuminated Eye opened within the Divine Potter’s protection. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khnum

But that might require you recognize both where the dragon hides within the tree, and how it can be revealed with a MER-KA-BA. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-REdC2F2JEI...s1600/7-11.jpg

Visita
Interiora
Terrae
Rectificando
Invenies
Occultum
Lapidem

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_soul
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it yet, but see Sepher Yetzirah VI:4.
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“Mirror, Mirror, on the Wall…”


By now you might have noticed some distinctive features to the cipher I use. Though, admittedly, any such system is, on some level, purely arbitrary, it was the enigmatic functionality of this particular set of attributions which initially captured my attention. Whether or not it was “true” in some absolute sense, I was curious to know how this particular card trick worked and, if possible, where it came from. All of which was before I’d figured out any of that Great Pyramid business. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-REdC2F2JEI...s1600/7-11.jpg

In fact, it was solely by looking for the mathematical underpinnings of this specific cipher that I stumbled across its’ Eye of Providence. Thus, I imagine a similar series of epiphanies had befallen others before me who’d made similar inquiries. Yet, in tracing its lineage of patterns and symbols, I’ve also stumbled across a number of “strange coincidences” which, in my opinion, raise some legitimate questions, however ‘bizarre’.

For instance: Borromean Rings and the Dragon Emperor. Though the early Milan pattern of trionfi in which they appear bear neither title nor numerical rank, that deck’s Emperor wears an emblem sharing a natural affinity with the infamous Pyramid built for a “king” under a Ram-headed deity’s protection and architecturally aligned to the dragon in the sky. Perhaps Sigismund & his Empress had a flair for interlinking circles, or maybe the cards’ painter merely suffered horror vacui, or a lineage to “Wodan” himself afforded the Emperor some hidden knowledge concerning the ‘valknot’. In any case, it is a synchrony embedded within this Visconti-Sforza deck which cannot easily shake the question: Did “they” know?

In addition, the Borromean Rings have another fascinating thing in common with “pyramids” – a topological feature likewise shared with the cipher’s attribution of planets to double letters within the alphabet.

Usually, one sees the 7 “planets” of antiquity (those visible to the naked eye) ordered sequentially in accord with their speed across the sky as seen from Earth: ♄♃♂☉♀☿☾

Arrayed around a circle, this sequence has been demonstrated to rearrange into the days of the week by applying a hexagram: ☉☽♂☿♃♀♄

Similarly, by using a centered hexagonal matrix and following their sequential pattern as employed within the qabalah tree, the following rearranges the planets’ order by speed into the double letters’ alphabetical sequence by applying the “Whitehead Link”:

1=Beyt = Mercury
2=Gimel = Moon
3=Daleth = Venus
10=Kaph = Jupiter
16=Peh = Mars
19=Resh = Sun
21=Tau = Saturn
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1aAll021WN...1600/hi-ho.jpg

Both Borromean Rings and the Whitehead Link are particular to a branch of mathematics known as Topology. More specifically, to Knot Theory – a subject that arose in the latter half of the 19th century in support of Lord Kelvin’s theory that atoms were knots woven into the Aether. While it is feasible that this may have inspired the Golden Dawn’s Cipher Manuscript attributions of planet : double-letter, it wasn’t until the 1970’s that William Thurston demonstrated that both were hyperbolic links – distinct topological configurations that preserve the metrics for ideal octahedrons within a geometric space of curvature -1.

3.3 Whitehead Link
3.4 Borromean Rings
http://library.msri.org/books/gt3m/PDF/3.pdf

Their difference being: Borromean Rings preserve the metric for 2 ideal hyperbolic octahedrons, while the Whitehead Link preserves the metric for one. In other words, 100+ years prior to the formalization of hyperbolic complements in knot theory, the GD Cipher Manuscript encoded a topological feature preserving the same geometric form, albeit in hyperbolic space, as the emblem upon the Dragon Emperor’s chest. Thus, no matter how impossible it might appear, one cannot help but ask the question: Did “they” know?
Yet, whatever the answer, is it not fascinating to behold the architecture underpinning this interface of Tarot with Qabalah Tree where they meet at the 7th wonder of the world? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGLPbSMxSUM

Another “strange coincidence”, perhaps a bit easier to visualize: the sum of the first 21 whole number above zero = 231, a figurate number that, by stacking squares of increasing : decreasing size 1+4+9+16+25+36+49+36+25+16+9+4+1, forms an octahedron of seven. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octahedral_number

One day, while fooling around with a calculator, I noticed that the speed of light divided by pi = the number of square degrees in 10 whole sphere, multiplied by 231.321…

4π (180/π)² = 129600 / π = square degrees per whole sphere
= measure of the total area of ‘Space’ viewable from Earth.

c = speed of light in meters per second
c = 299,792,458
c / (129600 *10) = 231.321...
c / π ≈ (10 whole spheres’ square degrees * the octahedron of 7)

So, looked at another way, multiplying the sum of its branches (numbered 0-21) by the scope of its ten spheres, the qabalah tree closely approximates the speed of light in meters per second divided by the ratio of a circle’s circumference to its radius squared. Thus, if one literally looks at this cipher from a higher dimension one may actually ‘see the light’ - or at least a close approximation thereof. Food for thought should one choose to delve deeper into the projective model for hyperbolic space and its relationship to special relativity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperboloid_model

Perhaps all of which is merely an epiphenomenon inadvertently evoked by this cipher’s distinct methodology of inducing recursions – an esoteric formula for constructing fractal alphabets to echo the macrocosm of creation. Or maybe “they” were al-ayins. I really don’t know. Like I said: “strange coincidences” – but, given some thought, one may be reminded of THE FOOL and how that sifr of no account has a way of turning THE WORLD downside-up.

2
6
5

♏ 21:11 “So Simon Peter [the Stone that has heard God] went aboard and hauled the net ashore, full of large fish, 153 of them. And although there were so many, the net was not torn.”
http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Your...eme=0&elements




☿♑
♐☉♑
☾♉☽
♒♀
♈♂

♎♃

♏ 11:14 “Osiris is dead.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Sigismondo_(Cremona)
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