Cusp Signs

Lola_Wolfe

Does anyone know anything about being a "Cusp Sign". I'm a June 20th Gemini and it definitely seems like I have a lot of Cancer traits as well. Just not sure what kind of affect it has since it's my Sun sign.

My Rising Sign is 16 degrees in Capricorn and my moon is 21 degrees in Libra if that helps. Curious which sign has the strongest affect on me. I'm very new to astrology though I have been drawn to it for a long time and I do have a few books on it but they are VERY complicated to understand.
 

Etene

Opinions vary from signs being compartments with no overlap whatsoever to as much as only the middle decan being "purely" that sign and the others being mixed with their neighbors.

I think the question to ask first is: What is the true nature of these "Cancer traits"? They may be Water traits or Moon traits finding ways to express themselves. Consider them and your chart carefully.

Also consider the accuracy of your birth data. Even on a birth certificate, it probably wasn't recorded by somebody with an astrologer's sense of time.
 

new_wave_romantic

As a pisces-aquarius cusp, I'd say that both signs play a role in my personality. I have the Pisces compassion, soul, and bleeding heart...but I'm bold and eccentric like an Aquarius. I tend to have problems with my ankles (aquarius) as opposed to my feet (pisces). I have Pisces problems with delusions and lying to myself, problems with addiction, and being very easily manipulated. Like Aquarius, I'm "top banana in the shock department", I value truth over everything else, I'm an oddball intellectual...

My moon is also on the cusp of pisces and aries, which complements the pisces-aquarius cusp action.
 

Ronia

I've never found a reason or a chart to convince me in the existence of such a mix. All the people whose charts I've read are one sun sign and their whole personality is, of course, influenced by all the other planets and their placements. It seems easier to first develop your own understanding in what the Sun represents in an astrological chart and to what extend its placement can colour one's personaliy at all. Opinions vary greatly on that. And then, in order to say someone is a mix of two signs, we have to 100% exclude any similar to the second sign influence from another planet, aspect or point. Pretty much unseen, in my opinion. And to make it all even more complicated, which system of assigning traits to signs and houses will we use? There is more than one plus the cookbook descriptions of sun signs and their traits. Overall, my answer is no, I haven't found this cusp born thing viable.
 

Minderwiz

All the people whose charts I've read are one sun sign and their whole personality is, of course, influenced by all the other planets and their placements.

Exactly so. But there is a widespread belief in Modern Astrology that there is a sort of transition space where two adjacent signs merge and influence each other. In part this is a natural consequence of Kepler, who rejected signs and went for degrees. The Zodiac becomes little more than a sort of orbital motorway - the M25 of the Cosmos.

Pre-Kepler it was seen more as a series of discrete houses through which the Sun passed and it was either in one house or the other but never two at once. But the tradition still allowed for variation within a sign. Not just at the beginning or end, but all the way through. That came from sub-divisions of a sign (rooms in the house, to use that analogy). the best known today being decans, And that's the only one that gets any use at all in the Modern practice.

So, bearing in mind Ronia's point about the role of the other planets, let's just consider a few factors here.

Firstly, there is one thing that we need to be careful of at the start:

I'm a June 20th Gemini and it definitely seems like I have a lot of Cancer traits as well. Just not sure what kind of affect it has...

The first question I'd ask here is are you sure you're Sun is in Gemini. Just because the Sun Sign Column says June 21st for Cancer, doesn't always make it so. I did a run of 30 consecutive Cancer ingresses. The earliest one occurred at 16:45 GMT (Universal Time) on 20th June. If you had been born on that day, in the USA, you would have to be born before 12:45 EDT to be a Gemini. If you are on the West Coast you can push back that local time into mid morning.

Most of the ingresses were on 21st but even that doesn't force you to be a Gemini' if the ingress was in the early morning in London. You might already have checked that for your birth year but it's worth stating for other readers of this thread.

Now let's consider the subdivisions.

The last decan of Gemini is ruled by the Sun. That would decrease the overall Mercury influence.

The first in Cancer is ruled by Venus

There are other divisions, one of the oldest is the Bounds or Terms

The last of these in Gemini is ruled by Saturn

The first in Cancer is ruled by Mars

Their influences would also be felt, Mercury or Moon set the overall tone but the Bound ruler adds shading to the tone.

There are even more subdivisions, but most were not regularly used in the West, though some made their way into Indian Astrology.

What can be applied to your Sun's position can be applied to every other position in your chart, thus your Capricorn Ascendant, lies in the Bounds of Venus and the Decan of Mars, And you Libra Moon lies in the Bounds of Jupiter and the Decan of Mars.

All of those subtly change a natal reading,
 

Lola_Wolfe

Wow Minderwiz that is great information, although I will be honest I need to read it a few more times because I didn't quite understand it all. I was born at 9:29pm EST in Rhode Island, US and in 1991 so if I read correctly what you said that would make me a Cancer? I know there is more than just Sun sign, I have done my birth chart on free sites before though I don't know how accurate they are. I am trying to learn for myself but I have to say Astrology is one of the more complicated topics I have encountered. You sound well informed and I thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge with me!
 

Emma313

Does anyone know anything about being a "Cusp Sign". I'm a June 20th Gemini and it definitely seems like I have a lot of Cancer traits as well. Just not sure what kind of affect it has since it's my Sun sign.

My Rising Sign is 16 degrees in Capricorn and my moon is 21 degrees in Libra if that helps. Curious which sign has the strongest affect on me. I'm very new to astrology though I have been drawn to it for a long time and I do have a few books on it but they are VERY complicated to understand.

planets near the sun like Mercury and Venus may fall in one or two signs either side..so you can be a sun Gemini but have one of those in cancer or Taurus eg (ie both signs next to Gemini)

then you can have a whole host of the other planets or personal points like the ascendant and the moon in or near your sun sign which can alter your "sun sign characteristics"

Your natal chart is your DNA/ fingerprint in life, it's made up of entirely personal factors...no one is ever "just" a Gemini
 

Lola_Wolfe

Yes I do know I'm not just a Gemini but I'm looking to learn more about the different affects of all aspects of my chart. I have a couple books on it but they are so complicated I was hoping someone could put it in lamance terms to give me somewhere to start. And I read somewhere about Cusp signs and found it fascinating. But talking to others educated in the subject helps me more than just reading a book or looking at a site like café astrology.
 

Minderwiz

Wow Minderwiz that is great information, although I will be honest I need to read it a few more times because I didn't quite understand it all. I was born at 9:29pm EST in Rhode Island, US and in 1991 so if I read correctly what you said that would make me a Cancer? I know there is more than just Sun sign, I have done my birth chart on free sites before though I don't know how accurate they are. I am trying to learn for myself but I have to say Astrology is one of the more complicated topics I have encountered. You sound well informed and I thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge with me!

I said it could be possible, as the Sun's ingress into Cancer can vary by over 24 hours. Though it usually occurs some time on the 21st it can and does occur on the 20th, So with your birth time it was possible that in some years the Sun would be in Cancer. Actually in 1991 the Sun was at 29 degrees 13 Gemini. So you are a Gemini Sun.

Your Moon is in Libra and your Ascendant in Capricorn as you said. Mercury the Sun's ruler is in Cancer. You have a triple conjunction of Mars, Venus and Jupiter in Leo with only just over two and a half degrees separating all three - Venus and Mars are only separated by just over half a degree.

Saturn lies in Aquarius. And those seven are the most important for Personality.
 

Minderwiz

Wow Minderwiz that is great information, although I will be honest I need to read it a few more times because I didn't quite understand it all. I was born at 9:29pm EST in Rhode Island, US and in 1991 so if I read correctly what you said that would make me a Cancer? I know there is more than just Sun sign, I have done my birth chart on free sites before though I don't know how accurate they are. I am trying to learn for myself but I have to say Astrology is one of the more complicated topics I have encountered. You sound well informed and I thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge with me!

I said it could be possible, as the Sun's ingress into Cancer can vary by over 24 hours. Though it usually occurs some time on the 21st it can and does occur on the 20th, So with your birth time it was possible that in some years the Sun would be in Cancer. Actually in 1991 the Sun was at 29 degrees 13 Gemini. So you are a Gemini Sun.

Your Moon is in Libra and your Ascendant in Capricorn as you said. Mercury the Sun's ruler is in Cancer. You have a triple conjunction of Mars, Venus and Jupiter in Leo with only just over two and a half degrees separating all three - Venus and Mars are only separated by just over half a degree.

Saturn lies in Aquarius. And those seven are the most important for Personality.