New at Trionfi.com

Huck

1.

Announcement of
new Book from Andrea Vitali and Terry Zanetti:

http://trionfi.com/0/n/n/0505001/

Il TAROCCHINO DI BOLOGNA - STORIA, ICONOGRAFIA, DIVINAZIONE dal XV al XX secolo.
With an introduction from Franco Cardini.
PRESENTAZIONE: Venerdì 13 maggio - ore 18
Oratorio di San Filippo Neri - Bologna.

According to private comunication the text contains new material to Prince Fibbia, who - according a little insecure sources - invented the Tarocchino Bolognese.

2.

New Playing Card from ca. 1490 in French Museum

http://trionfi.com/0/j/d/Minchiate-Ship/

Ship Card (from a Minchiate game ?)

3.

New Visconti/Sforza card at an auction in Paris

http://trionfi.com/0/j/d/christie/

4.

International entries for Tarot and playing card Museum: http://trionfi.com/

in German, French, Spanish, Italian, Dutch, Portuguese
 

Namadev

First entry : 1440 or 1442?

Huck said:
Perhaps I should give some more informations.

Dokument 01 and 02 are very importan, they fix the date for the Trionfi-game to the year 1442.

Hi Huck, Ross and Autorbis,

You say the first entry is 1442.

What about this entry circa 1440?

Document A
The words "Triomphi" and "minchiata" appear in context in a poem around 1440 (unclear date). The meaning of this occurence is unclear (the passage was found by Raimondo Luberti). Burchiello was a poet and barber and in his shop artists and other great people of the time did meet, engaging themselves in poetry. His sonnets became rather popular.
Around 1440 [appearance of "minchiata" and "Triomphi" in Poem 31 from "Rime" of Burchiello]:
Se tu volessi fare un buon minuto
togli Aretini et Orvietani e Bessi
e sarti mulattieri bugiardi e messi,
e fa' che ciaschedun sie ben battuto;
poi gli condisci con uno scrignuto
e per sale vi trita entro votacessi,
e per agresto minchiatar fra essi
accioché sia di tutto ben compiuto.
Spècchiati ne' Triomphi, el gran mescuglio
d'arme, damor, di Bruti e di Catoni
con femine e poeti in guazabuglio: questo fanno patire i maccheroni
veghiando il verno, e meriggiando il luglio
dormir pegli scriptoi i mocciconi.
Dè parliàn de moscioni,
quanta gratia ha il ciel donato loro,
che trassinando merda si fan d'oro.


Regards
 

Huck

The Burchiello poem has only a "ca."-date and this could mean a lot of other possible dates, earlier or later (Burchiello died 1449, but already made poems since 1432/1433 at least).
And the relation between the terms "Trionfi" and "Minchiatar" in the poem - if it means anything - shows no indication, that the poet spoke of playing cards and the existence of games, which were named "Trionfi" and "Minchiate".
The appearance of the words Trionfo and minchiatar in one sentence might mean, that both words express contrasting qualities like "good" and "bad" or "strong" and "weak" - in this case perhaps "triumphing" and to "be fooled". Compare:

http://trionfi.com/0/g/12/
 

Namadev

Huck said:
The Burchiello poem has only a "ca."-date and this could mean a lot of other possible dates, earlier or later (Burchiello died 1449, but already made poems since 1432/1433 at least).
And the relation between the terms "Trionfi" and "Minchiatar" in the poem - if it means anything - shows no indication, that the poet spoke of playing cards and the existence of games, which were named "Trionfi" and "Minchiate".
The appearance of the words Trionfo and minchiatar in one sentence might mean, that both words express contrasting qualities like "good" and "bad" or "strong" and "weak" - in this case perhaps "triumphing" and to "be fooled". Compare:

http://trionfi.com/0/g/12/

OK
Another question, Huck?

What is the earliest reference for "Minchiate" as a game?

Thanks for answering...
 

Huck

1466, a letter between Luigi Pulci and Lorenzo de Medici.

Franco Pratesi tried to locate the letter, but was unsuccessful. The letter is - as it seems - lost. Pratesi - who did some basic research in Florence around the late 80ies/early 90ies could find two other documents, one from 1471 and another from 1477, which were not known to Dummett in "Game of Tarot".

Luigi Pulci was a sort of teacher and elder friend to Lorenzo de Medici, who was in 1466 about 17 years old and in the right age to be interested in card games. Luigi Pulci was a funny poet and quite a contrast to Marsilio Ficino - who became his foe in 1475 in away, that Pulci had to leave the city.
Pulci worked on the Orlando-theme - before Boiardo -. and for both the personal "Orlando"-versions became the poetical masterpiece.
Boiardo worked on a card game (Boiardo Tarocchi deck) ... it wouldn't be a surprize, if Pulci worked on a card deck - also before Boiardo. And ... as Pulci is from Florence ... it wouldn't surprize, when this deck was called Minchiate. Burchiello, who used the word minchiatar, was also from Florence, though he had to leave the city after 1433, banned by Cosimo de Medici.
It is proven, that Pulci used the word minchiatar or similar.

Pulci is the first address for the unknown oigin of Minchiate.
We have at least 3 (or 2 1/2) clear examples, that poets (or writers) influenced playing card decks in 15th century:

Martiano da Tortona - Michelino deck
Boiardo - Boiardo deck
Lazzarelli - the 27 pictures in his poem and possibly the Mantegna Tarocchi

Also other examples from German decks.

Pulci's participation wouldn't surprize. Close cooperation between poet and book-painter was a natural liaison etween two different talents.
 

Cerulean

I did a web search for the Vitali book on Bologna Tarocchino

But only came up with the festival and presentations.

http://www.celticworld.it/phorum/read.php?3,31716

I hope we hear when the book or presenation collection of papers is due to come out in 2005.

Regards,

Cerulean
 

Namadev

Huck said:
1466, a letter between Luigi Pulci and Lorenzo de Medici.

Franco Pratesi tried to locate the letter, but was unsuccessful. The letter is - as it seems - lost. Pratesi - who did some basic research in Florence around the late 80ies/early 90ies could find two other documents, one from 1471 and another from 1477, which were not known to Dummett in "Game of Tarot".

Luigi Pulci was a sort of teacher and elder friend to Lorenzo de Medici, who was in 1466 about 17 years old and in the right age to be interested in card games. Luigi Pulci was a funny poet and quite a contrast to Marsilio Ficino - who became his foe in 1475 in away, that Pulci had to leave the city.
Pulci worked on the Orlando-theme - before Boiardo -. and for both the personal "Orlando"-versions became the poetical masterpiece.
Boiardo worked on a card game (Boiardo Tarocchi deck) ... it wouldn't be a surprize, if Pulci worked on a card deck - also before Boiardo. And ... as Pulci is from Florence ... it wouldn't surprize, when this deck was called Minchiate. Burchiello, who used the word minchiatar, was also from Florence, though he had to leave the city after 1433, banned by Cosimo de Medici.
It is proven, that Pulci used the word minchiatar or similar.

Pulci is the first address for the unknown oigin of Minchiate.
We have at least 3 (or 2 1/2) clear examples, that poets (or writers) influenced playing card decks in 15th century:

Martiano da Tortona - Michelino deck
Boiardo - Boiardo deck
Lazzarelli - the 27 pictures in his poem and possibly the Mantegna Tarocchi

Also other examples from German decks.

Pulci's participation wouldn't surprize. Close cooperation between poet and book-painter was a natural liaison etween two different talents.

Hi
Thank you for this answer, Huck.
 

Namadev

Cerulean said:
But only came up with the festival and presentations.

http://www.celticworld.it/phorum/read.php?3,31716

I hope we hear when the book or presenation collection of papers is due to come out in 2005.

Regards,

Cerulean

Hi

The link given by Huck is invalid.
I know by Vitali himself that it was scheduled for May 25th.
From Huck's post, it appears that it would bre presented a little before...

As Huck said, there is a renewal of a abandonned tyheory : that Prince Fibbia would be the inventor of tarot in Bologne.

This is a inner cinviction of Vitali and I am looking forward to read his book because I think that this hypothesis is fascinating indeed...

Regards
 

Huck

http://trionfi.com/0/n/n/0505001/

The link is valid (was wrong, I repaired it in the meantime). The info is from Andrea himself, so should be correct.
But Mari's info should be related.