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Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronia View Post
How about my question from the previous thread? Will I start a desired job/career by the end of this year? Job would be the 6th house, career the 10th, do I look at both rulers to determine what will be my employment status?
Of course and apologies for failing to pick it up before. The full question posted was:

Minderwiz, are you going to continue wuth the horary readings this year? If so, can I ask about a new job in the new year? That means: will I start a well paying desired by me job/career by the end of 2012?

The significators would be you - first house, as normal.

Now you use job/career as though the are the same and indeed that's the way that I would treat them here. The only meaningful distinctions that I can think of between 'career; and 'joib' is that a career is chosen deliberately and is something that you enjoy doing (or at least when you started it) and possibly but not always pays better. 'Career' also has connotations of professional status of some sort. A 'job' on the other hand is something you do to pay the bills but may not enjoy. In this question you deliberately used the phrase 'desired by me' as well as 'well paid'. Either way both 'job' and 'career' would be tenth house. The tenth says something about your social status and whether you have a 'job' or 'career' you gain a large part of your social status from it. I know that some modern writers treat the sixth as covering work colleagues or 'the job' but I think that misses the original meaning which was 'slaves and servants'. Now I know few of us these days have slaves and servants but may of us do have subordinates at work - people who answer to us. And also we all from time to time hire others to do work for us - plumbers, electricians, real estate agents, caterers, etc. These are sixth house people (though as John Frawley points out you might end up crawling to the plumber to come out and fix the leaking tap). Lee in the post above is in a sixth house relationship to the Agency and if the principal of the agency had asked the question about Lee, then I'd have used the sixth house for him.


So for your question the significators are the first and tenth houses rulers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronia
Also, it's not possible for me to install any new programs on my computer, how do I calculate these essential dignities? I don't understand the lists on Skyscript... They require calculation which I don't know how to do.
For Rulership, Exaltation,

all you need to do is check the sign of your significator and then use the table on Skyscript to check if the planet is in one of these two dignities using the firstthree columns of the table. The first column gives the sign (in which the planet concerned is located) and is used for all the essential dignities. The second column giver the planet ruling the sign (you can ignore the D or N for Day and Night). The third column gives the planet exalted in that sign. So if your planet appears in the second column it's the sign ruler, if it appears in the third column it's in it's exaltation and if it appears in the first two columns then it's Mercury in Virgo. Again you can ignore the degree quoted, these did indeed use to be important but even in the Medieval period they were not really made any use of.

The fourth column is the Triplictiy ruler for the three signs of the same element. Now here you will find two planets listed, one for D(ay) and one for N(ight). Which of these you take depends on the time that you cast the chart. If the Sun is above the horizon take the one in the D column, if it's below the horizon then take the one in the N column. If it's a Water sign always use Mars as the Triplicity ruler whether it's Day or Night. All these three dignities require you only to know what sign the planet is in. There's no calculation of any sort.

Terms and Face

There is now a block of five columns all under the heading 'The Terms of the Planets'. To use this block you need to know what degree of the sign your planet is in. You can get this from scrutinising the chart, or looking at the list of the positions given by astro.com.

Each sign has five Terms, and the planets ruling each term are given in order plust the degree at which their Term rulership ends. Thus for Aries, the first Term has Jupiter listed followed by the number 6. This means Jupiter rules the terms from the start of Aries (0 degrees) up to but not including 6 degrees exactly , i.e. up to 5 degrees 59 minutes 59 seconds (and any fraction of a second you care to suggest). From 6 degrees exactly up to but not including 14 degrees exactly, Venus rules the second Term. From 14 degrees exactly up to 21 degrees Mercury rules, from 21 exactly up to 26 Mars rules and from 26 exactly up to the end of Aries, Saturn rules.

Terms are the only difficult set because the Terms are not equal and I certainly can't remember each individual one. So I use the table or software.

The next three columns come under the common heading 'The Faces of The Planets' . Each sign is divided into three equal segments of 10 degrees (sometimes referred to as the Decans). Again yu need the degree of the sign the planet is in, but you should already have determined that for finding it's Terms. The degrees quoted in the column should be read in the same way as for Terms. That is the first Face runs from 0 degrees exactly up to but not including 10 degrees, in Aries this will be ruled by Mars. The second Face runs from 10 degrees exactly and is ruled by The Sun and the final Face runs fron 20 degrees exactly and is ruled by Venus. Again using Aries as the example.

For both Terms and Face, if the planet you are looking for is listed in one of the columns for the sign it is placed in and is in one of the degrees that fall into that Term or Face then it has dignity. However you need to take a little care that the planet is in it's own Terms. So if Jupiter is at 6 degrees exact of Aries, it is actually in the Terms of Venus and has no dignity by Terms (though it might be the Triplicity ruler if the chart was cast at night)



Debilities

The Final two columns of the table give you the planet in Detriment or Fall in that sign. So if your planet is in one of those two columns it's got a debility.


None of the dignities require any mathematical calculation but they do require you to know the planet's sign placement at least, for Triplicity you will need to know whether it is night or day and for Terms and Face what degree of the sign it is in.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronia View Post
And also, am I right I have a void of course Moon here: https://picasaweb.google.com/simplya...04107854745682

Considering we don't use Neptune, I don't see her forming any major aspect (applying) before she moves into Pisces and well into it. Correct?
No the Moon is not VOC because it is already beginning to apply to a trine to Saturn at 29 Libra - remember application includes all the major aspects here.

The trick is to scan round the chart for planets in a greater degree than the Moon and then if you find any (excluding Chiron and the outers and asteroids) checking to see if the whole sign aspect is a major aspect.

As before remember that the Moon's orb is 12 degrees so if you don't find a planet on your first pass, then check for applications that will begin before the Moon changes sign but will not be completed till afterwards.

BTW is this chart one that you cast for your question or, if not,are you intending to cast one yourself or do you want me to cast one for you?
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Lee Horary - choosing the significators


Lee's horary shows one real issue that the Astrologer might have to confront, if doing a horary for someone else. If Lee had asked me to do the horary, I would have understood the question and cast a chart and then I would come up against a problem in choosing the significators.

Using the Moon for Lee would be straightforward but which house do I then use for the Agency and the work? Lee stated he was 'freelance' which usually means that he is not directly employed in the agency. He is used to contract out particular jobs. On the other hand he also states that 100% of his work comes from them. Now I would find it difficult to choose between the tenth house - his employer and his career and using the seventh house - the agency as a buyer of the professional service he sells. In which case the professional service itself is the ninth house. If the seventh was used, then the ruler is Saturn and Saturn would signify the agency. Saturn is in exaltation in Libra and angular in the fourth House. So in this reading the agency would be seen as very strong in relation to Lee with both the power and the ability to control his work process.

Whether that control will last is open to some doubt at Saturn is in the last degree of the sign. The condition of the Moon remains as before, so we have a very unequal relationship here. However the good news is that the next major aspect the Moon makes to a planet will be a trine to Saturn, assuming we ignore the forthcoming trine to the South Node. If we allow the trine to the South Node then the perfection will be 'Prohibited' by the South Node - the matter will not come out as we hope.

We could also use the ninth house ruler, Jupiter to make some assessment about the quality of the work Lee would be required to do professionally.

Both views show Lee as being in a weak position, the first one also shows issues with the agency but indicates a possibility of a third party bringing work from the agency to Lee (or at least adding to his resources). The second carries at least some possibility of work too, with the Saturn Moon trine. Both show problems for Lee, either from a static or declining agency in the first to something or someone intervening to stop the possible flow of work in the second.

If I had to choose, I would not do it without discussing it through with Lee in terms of his relationship to the agency. If he sees himself very much as an employee, then no matter what the legal distinction is, I'd use the tenth House for the agency.

My point here is that the choice of significator can make a difference and if there are two or more possible relationships in the question, you should discuss it with the querent before proceeding to judgement. I have had questions before in which I've failed to ask more about the relationship involved and produced a perfectly sound but sadly wrong reading. To me, it's those sort of 'detective' tasks that make Horary so interesting.
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In Lee's horary, it doesn't appear (to me) to make much difference whether the agency is assigned to the 10th or the 7th. Either way, in the end it doesn't look good for the agency or the opportunities that might come through a third party.

If we give the agency to the 10th, I don't think we can expect much of Mars as a helper in his reception with Mercury - Mars is peregrine, cadent, and retrograde as of today, so even though Mercury is in the sign of his (Mars') exaltation, the condition of Mars is such that he won't be able to deliver. In addition, Mercury is disposited by (i.e., in a sign ruled by) Saturn in the final degree of his (Saturn's) exaltation. The last degrees of a sign often indicate desperation, or at least a turning point; and here, Saturn teeters on the brink of Scorpio - where he, too, will become peregrine. Saturn won't actually leave the sign of his exaltation until October, but that is because he turns retrograde (ugh!) at the gate of Scorpio - so he will be able to keep up appearances for awhile (exaltation typically refers more to exaggeration or wishful thinking than actual capacity). Mercury in this chart rules the 3rd and 12th houses, which does not signify much ability to help, and at least the potential for material harm (through the 12th) - and when Mercury leaves the sign of Mars' exaltation, he will move right into another sign ruled by Saturn (whose fortunes will eventually change for the worse).

If we view the agency as a 7th house entity - which I am inclined to do, since the 7th concerns agents in general - the situation remains basically the same, and of course Saturn's role becomes even more pronounced in that case (he being the ruler of Capricorn on the cusp of the 7th). Saturn's exaltation in Libra shows the agency's significator to be in better condition than Lee's significator Moon - but Saturn will eventually leave Libra after several months of retrogradation, which I would interpret as a period of treading water for the agency; when Saturn finally enters Scorpio in October, they will very likely be in deep financial straits. Planets in exaltation often promise more than they can deliver, or look better than they are (think PR). Saturn also rules the 8th house of the horary, signifying the agency's money (as the 2nd house from the 7th), so they will continue to experience financial losses. There might be a third-party intervention that enables the agency to stay afloat until October - a loan, for example - but if so, that support will likely evaporate when Saturn enters Scorpio, where he will immediately oppose the general significator of money (Jupiter) in the 10th house of career for the chart (the 4th of the grave for the agency!).

Lee's question includes a two-week time limit in regard to his immediate situation with the agency, and within that period things might look better than they will ultimately prove to be. In his shoes, I believe I would be alert to the possibilities offered by a third party (if such a person materializes), but also cover myself by looking around at other options for employment. The third-party scenario might be one in which a client of Lee's present agency decides to start a venture of his own, inviting other clients to follow him; but he won't be able to deliver all that he promises, and the work - if it is offered - will probably not be permanent. At the same time, Lee's present agency is on shaky ground. So it might be a good idea to "think outside the box" when it comes to future professional and financial satisfaction.

Edited to add: I see the final Moon-Saturn trine as further testimony to an illusory "things are looking up" scenario. It might signify promise, but there's not much to support it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
No the Moon is not VOC because it is already beginning to apply to a trine to Saturn at 29 Libra - remember application includes all the major aspects here.

The trick is to scan round the chart for planets in a greater degree than the Moon and then if you find any (excluding Chiron and the outers and asteroids) checking to see if the whole sign aspect is a major aspect.

As before remember that the Moon's orb is 12 degrees so if you don't find a planet on your first pass, then check for applications that will begin before the Moon changes sign but will not be completed till afterwards.

BTW is this chart one that you cast for your question or, if not,are you intending to cast one yourself or do you want me to cast one for you?
This was the one I cast for the question but I thought we were looking for aspects ahead, I somehow had the wrong feeling those "behind" the Moon were not applying aspects but separating, just a misperception, now I know better. OK, I'll try and do something with this chart then, thanks for the guidance in the other posts too.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astraea View Post
In Lee's horary, it doesn't appear (to me) to make much difference whether the agency is assigned to the 10th or the 7th. Either way, in the end it doesn't look good for the agency or the opportunities that might come through a third party.
Yes the long term view is not particularly good either way, using the 10th offers the possibility of some hope in the period of the horary but with an agency at best dependent on one main client as the source is not a particularly safe scenario

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astraea
If we give the agency to the 10th, I don't think we can expect much of Mars as a helper in his reception with Mercury - Mars is peregrine, cadent, and retrograde as of today, so even though Mercury is in the sign of his (Mars') exaltation, the condition of Mars is such that he won't be able to deliver. In addition, Mercury is disposited by (i.e., in a sign ruled by) Saturn in the final degree of his (Saturn's) exaltation. The last degrees of a sign often indicate desperation, or at least a turning point; and here, Saturn teeters on the brink of Scorpio - where he, too, will become peregrine. Saturn won't actually leave the sign of his exaltation until October, but that is because he turns retrograde (ugh!) at the gate of Scorpio - so he will be able to keep up appearances for awhile (exaltation typically refers more to exaggeration or wishful thinking than actual capacity). Mercury in this chart rules the 3rd and 12th houses, which does not signify much ability to help, and at least the potential for material harm (through the 12th) - and when Mercury leaves the sign of Mars' exaltation, he will move right into another sign ruled by Saturn (whose fortunes will eventually change for the worse).
Well Mars is in the exaltation of Mercury as well as it's rulership so there is a mutual reception. That being said without the mutual reception both would be weak, so we have a possibly weak client coming to the weak agency's rescue short term. Saturn plays no important role in the reading based on the agency being 10th house though it does provide some background to the 'client'. Yes Mercury is accidentally malefic being Lord 12 but the aspect to Mars is a trine, not a square or opposition and this tends to reduce any malefic intent as it's an aspect of friendship. Moreover Mars is received into Virgo my the aspect from Mercury, and malefics tend not to harm planets that they are in receiving - the old idea that whether you like them or not, when you welcome a guest into your house you don't stab them in the back - there's a hospitality and service involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astraea
If we view the agency as a 7th house entity - which I am inclined to do, since the 7th concerns agents in general - the situation remains basically the same, and of course Saturn's role becomes even more pronounced in that case (he being the ruler of Capricorn on the cusp of the 7th). Saturn's exaltation in Libra shows the agency's significator to be in better condition than Lee's significator Moon - but Saturn will eventually leave Libra after several months of retrogradation, which I would interpret as a period of treading water for the agency; when Saturn finally enters Scorpio in October, they will very likely be in deep financial straits. Planets in exaltation often promise more than they can deliver, or look better than they are (think PR). Saturn also rules the 8th house of the horary, signifying the agency's money (as the 2nd house from the 7th), so they will continue to experience financial losses. There might be a third-party intervention that enables the agency to stay afloat until October - a loan, for example - but if so, that support will likely evaporate when Saturn enters Scorpio, where he will immediately oppose the general significator of money (Jupiter) in the 10th house of career for the chart (the 4th of the grave for the agency!)
I would agree with you that the seventh would seem to be the 'right' house for the agency - but and it is a but, there's a difference between the legal and the actual relationship. If Lee sees himself as 'employed' by the agency and the agency alone, then I think we are moving to the tenth for the agency as Lee will act as though he were an employee, though the agency may very well not see things this way. Indeed with the Moon on the eighth cusp - the House of the agent's monies, it may see Lee simply a source that help it to make money.

Using the seventh for the agency rules out Mars as a significator and (as far as I've chosen to go) that rules out the third party intervention. In that case the agency will continue in its dominant situation to Lee possibly giving him work (Moon trines Saturn) or not (Moon is prohibited by the South Node) as they choose. But you are quite right, Saturn is on the verge of losing it's dignity and that lurch tends to indicate that the agency will have problems in the (not too distant) future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astraea
Lee's question includes a two-week time limit, and within that period things might look better than they will ultimately prove to be. In his shoes, I believe I would be alert to the possibilities offered by a third party (if such a person materializes), but also cover myself by looking around at other options for employment. The third-party scenario might be one in which a client of Lee's present agency decides to start a venture of his own, inviting other clients to follow him; but he won't be able to deliver all that he promises, and the work - if it is offered - will probably not be permanent. At the same time, Lee's present agency is on shaky ground. So it might be a good idea to "think outside the box" when it comes to future professional and financial satisfaction.
The problem here is that things change and October is a long time off in Horary terms and indeed economic terms. Are we able to project a chart based on a time period of two weeks over a period of 10 months? Within the period of the question things do not look good and there's no strong evidence of improvement but tere's a chance of some work coming whichever significator we use. Chance though is not certainty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astraea
Edited to add: I see the final Moon-Saturn trine as further testimony to an illusory "things are looking up" scenario. It might signify promise, but there's not much to support it.
Being a natural pessimist (Saturn on the Ascendant) I would take the Moon/Saturn trine as being prohibited by the trine to the South Node. The South Node (Tail of the Dragon) is a natural malefic as well so the outcome will probably be thwarted if we use the seventh for the agency. Something like 'Sorry Lee, we had some work lined up for you but it's just fallen through'.
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I don't think we can read a longer term into Lee's question than he has stipulated regarding his own situation, but a horary can indicate far-reaching trends for impersonal entities like the agency. Hopefully an entirely new employment opportunity will present itself to Lee in the not-too-distant future.

Yes, it's certainly better that Mercury and Mars are trine and not square or opposition one another; however, I don't think either of them are in a position to do each other much good. Mars is in the sign and exaltation of Mercury, so Mercury wants badly to help out - but Mars is not essentially strong enough to capitalize on whatever Mercury offers.
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Wait, I see what you're saying - the reception saves Mars from being peregrine. Considering the trine between Mars and Mercury, you're absolutely right. It's a slim reed, but it's something!
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My chart on job/career


I started with checking the Ascendant degree which is in the middle of Cancer, so that appears to be fine.
It makes my significator the Moon.
I thought she was void of course but apparently I was wrong, so that's fine too.
The ruler of the 10th (my job/career) is Jupiter.

About my significator - the Moon, she's in the 8th house which I guess is not very nice. I' say she is not very visible there, is she?
I must admit I'm struggling with these dignities tables, I really am but from what I see, it looks the Moon doesn't have any in 19 degrees Aquarius... She is in the terms of Mercury, in the face of Venus but what does that mean?

I really don't understand the triplicity concept either.
It seems that Saturn and Mercury are triplicity rulers of all air signs but what
does it mean to this Moon? She is forming a trine with Saturn which is the triplicity ruler
for daytime but does it give her any dignity? I'm totally lost here. Why do I need this triplicity and how do I use it???

Accidental dignities - in the 8th house -2, waxing +2, under the Sun's beams -4 and that's all I could do here.
Overall looks like I'm in a very weak position.

Now Jupiter, my job.
He's in the 2nd degree Taurus, I don't see any dignity there either... Weird. He's in the terms of Venus in the face of Mercury but it
doesn't mean anything to me again, so I'm just quoting this table.

Accidental dignities
11th house +4, direct +4, I don't know if he's fast or not so can't use these numbers, I think he's oriental (?) +2,
free from Sun's beams +5. But I don't understand how it relates to my question at all. My hypothetical job is nice?
For some reason I had a better understanding before, I really feel lost now with all these numbers and I somehow
lost my path through the chart. I can't see the obvious - the aspects and the answer.

What I can make of Jupiter in the 11th is that friends may play role here... But this is my gut feeling
not the horary tables. I'm lost having two significators without any of those essential dignities and I don't know
what to make of these triplicities. Now I see Venus would be the triplicity ruler for daytime
Earth signs and Jupiter is in her terms but what does that mean?

Finally, my answer. The Moon will form a sextile with Jupiter right before she leaves Aquarius ( the sextile shown for
Neptune on the chart) but is this enough? Is this just an opportunity?

Chart: https://picasaweb.google.com/simplya...04107854745682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronia View Post
This was the one I cast for the question but I thought we were looking for aspects ahead, I somehow had the wrong feeling those "behind" the Moon were not applying aspects but separating, just a misperception, now I know better. OK, I'll try and do something with this chart then, thanks for the guidance in the other posts too.
Ah - I think you are taking 'ahead' here to mean forward in the zodiac, rather than simply ahead in time. In your chart the Moon is at 19 degrees Aquarius and Saturn is at 29 degrees Libra. I think you have ruled Saturn out because it lies behind the Moon in the zodiac - Libra precedes Aquarius. However applying aspects can be forward or backward in the zodiac, what matters is that the aspect will be perfected in the future.

The Moon in Aquarius trines planets in Gemini and planets in Libra. Either of these trines can be applying as all that term indicate is that the aspect will occur in the future. With Moon at 19 degrees Aquarius and Saturn at 29 degrees Libra the Moon being the faster planet is gaining on Saturn and will perfect the trine in the future (from the time of your chart) Indeed as I type this the Moon has reached 27 degrees Aquarius and will perfect the trine in the next couple of hours
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