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Lee's Avatar
Lee  Lee is offline
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I think I'm ready to post a new chart, and I intend to try interpreting it as well. However, I have an initial question about the significators, so I'll ask that first before posting the chart.

The question will be: Is my brother alive?

I thought this would be an interesting question because it allows us to deal with a somewhat edgy topic (life/death of a close family member) but without having to worry about the answer's emotional effect on the querent (me). I obviously have an interest in the answer, but I don't feel emotionally closely connected to it. The circumstances are these: About 35 years ago, my brother (five years my senior), who had mental health issues, vanished at age 21. He took his clothes with him, so clearly his leaving was voluntary. Because of his condition (clinically diagnosed schizophrenia), living with him was impossible, and perhaps he sensed that. No one in my family has seen or heard from him since.

Because of the difficult family situation, I was not close with him and in fact was rather relieved when he vanished. Our family doctor told my mother that he felt it was unlikely that my brother would live very long because of other health problems. But who knows? In any event, an answer one way or another won't upset me.

However, I'm at a loss in terms of significators. I'm the querent so I get the first house. But what house represents the quesited? A more basic question would be, who/what is the quesited for this question? Is it my brother (third house)? I think that would be a little sticky, because wouldn't a major aspect between me and my brother suggest an interaction between us? The problem with that is that I have no desire for any interaction, so in this particular case, interaction would be a negative thing. Would it be better to turn the chart and use derived houses?
Top   #81
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Hi Lee. I haven't mastered multiple quotes, so I'll just answer your questions in order.

One discovers when a planet will become direct, retrograde or stationary by looking in the ephemeris - a chart only shows the planet's status as of a particular moment in time, whereas that can change within a few hours. This is why Frawley and others insist that one actually look at an ephemeris before making judgements about aspects (which might not actually reach perfection, regardless of what seems to be indicated in the chart).

When Saturn leaves Libra, he will enter the next sign in the orderly progression of the zodiac - Scorpio - where he does not enjoy any dignities. One can determine this by looking at a table of planetary dignities and debilities, such as this one: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/essential_dignities.html. Run your eyes down the left-hand side of the diagram, and when you reach the symbol for Scorpio, read across the line - you won't find Saturn listed for any of the major dignities (i.e. sign rulership, triplicity rulership, or exaltation). Not enjoying any dignity in Scorpio, he is said to be peregrine.

Saturn's period of retrogradation - like Mars' - is determined by looking at the ephemeris. Whenever a planet turns retrograde, this is indicated in the ephemeris by the letter "R" next to its degree notation. When the planet goes direct, the R no longer appears in the degree column. For a few days before and after a planet changes direction, it is said to be stationary - moving very slowly in preparation for making its apparent turn.

Yes, a company is an entity and, as such, can be referred to the 7th house. However, since you clarified your own views on the agency (in one your last posts), it seems to be a 10th house matter for you - and that is what counts. So my gloomy prognostication might not pan out, and I hope it doesn't!
Top   #82
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Thanks Astraea! Clearly obtaining an ephemeris is a high priority. Although I do have software which will allow me to create a text ephemeris on the screen, if I can figure out how to do it.
Top   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee View Post
I'm the querent so I get the first house. But what house represents the quesited? A more basic question would be, who/what is the quesited for this question? Is it my brother (third house)?
As the querent, you get the first house, and your brother gets the third (brothers and sisters). House signification is determined by the subject of the question - and this is clearly a third-house sibling relationship. BUT...if I were you, yes, I would turn the chart and place the third house cusp on the Ascendant, because you want to know the status of your brother's viability and health; you are not asking whether or not you will reeastablish ties with him.

In the unturned chart, an applying aspect between your significator and the lord of the third house might show the possibility of a reconnection with your brother if you desired one, but the actual status of your brother would be indicated by the condition of the ruler of the third house and any planets therein, in combination with aspects to planets signifying the viability of your brother (hence the value of turning the chart).

There is a very nice on-line ephemeris here: http://www.khaldea.com/ephemcenter.shtml
Scroll down the page until you come to the year you want, click on it, and a one-month ephemeris will appear. You will find all the months of that year listed horizontally at the top of the ephemeris, and all you have to do is click on the one you want to see. Retrograde periods are shown in red, which is very convenient.
Top   #84
queen_of_wands  queen_of_wands is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
Can I ask what the question was
I wantedto know what March 1 would be like, I have a competition, and I'd like to know how well I am going to place? Thank you.
Top   #85
Lee's Avatar
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Thanks Astraea, that on-line ephemeris is very helpful.

Astraea's advice on turning the chart sounds like good advice, however since Minderwiz hasn't yet really delved into turned charts/derived houses, and I'm a bit fearful of stepping into the unknown and finding myself with nothing to stand on. So I've decided to keep it simple and keep the chart unturned for now. After I feel more advanced, I'll certainly revisit this chart and try it the other way.

So the question is: Is my brother alive?

The chart info: January 26, 2012, 2:18 a.m., Bethesda, Maryland, 77 degrees 06 W, 38 degrees 58 N, -5 GMT.

For completeness, I'll repeat what I posted about the background of the question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
I thought this would be an interesting question because it allows us to deal with a somewhat edgy topic (life/death of a close family member) but without having to worry about the answer's emotional effect on the querent (me). I obviously have an interest in the answer, but I don't feel emotionally closely connected to it. The circumstances are these: About 35 years ago, my brother (five years my senior), who had mental health issues, vanished at age 21. He took his clothes with him, so clearly his leaving was voluntary. Because of his condition (clinically diagnosed schizophrenia), living with him was impossible, and perhaps he sensed that. No one in my family has seen or heard from him since.

Because of the difficult family situation, I was not close with him and in fact was rather relieved when he vanished. Our family doctor told my mother that he felt it was unlikely that my brother would live very long because of other health problems. But who knows? In any event, an answer one way or another won't upset me.
Now on to interpretation. How exciting -- I feel like I'm on a roller coaster, about to plunge downward...

Is the Moon Void of Course? No -- the Moon in Pisces will soon conjunct Venus in Pisces.

Significators:
Ascendant is in Scorpio so my significator is Mars in Virgo in 10th House.
Third House cusp is in Capricorn so my brother's significator is Saturn in Libra in 11th House.

Condition of each significator:
Mars: Peregrine (-5). 10th House (+5). Retrograde (-5). Slow (-2). Total -7.

Saturn: Exaltation (+4). 11th House (+4). Slow (-2). Total +6.

No mutual receptions.

No major aspects between significators (they are in adjacent signs).

No antiscia connections between significators.

There is an applying sextile between the Moon and Jupiter.

Judgement:
No connections between significators indicates no contact between us. (Not a surprise, contact was very unlikely whether he is alive or not.) The applying sextile between Moon and Jupiter seems somewhat ambiguous for this particular question -- it suggests emotional fulfillment, but for whom? All things considered, when looked at objectively, I would rather he were alive than not, so I'm going to assume this aspect points towards living, combined with the relative strength of his significator.

However, does Jupiter's (in the 6th House of illness) sextile with the Moon mean that the aspect is benefic in the sense that there is less illness (thus a net postive) , or in the sense that the illness is stronger?

Now, I'm going to go out on a limb and do a single derived house. The question specifically wants to know about death, so I'm going to look at the 8th house (death) from the 3rd (sibling). That would be the 10th. Ruler of 10th is Mercury, which is in Capricorn in the 3rd house.

So Mercury, here the ruler of death, is in the 3rd House of my brother. Also there is a separating square between Mercury (ruler of death) and Saturn (my brother's significator). Perhaps indicating recently deceased?

Well, that's as far as I'll go for now. My brother seems well-placed (certainly better-placed than my significator -- perhaps he is more alive than I am? ) but with the derived house it looks bad.

I'm looking forward to learning what mistakes I've made -- the best way to learn!

Edited to add: Forgot to attach chart.
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Top   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queen_of_wands View Post
I wantedto know what March 1 would be like, I have a competition, and I'd like to know how well I am going to place? Thank you.
Thanks for that and sorry for the delay in getting back to you - Today has been rather busy to say the least!!

Looking at your link to astro.com the data appears to be for the time and place of your birth, rather than the time and place that you asked the question. Horary is independent of your birth details it is based solely on the time that you felt strongly enough about a matter to ask the question. It's a bit like someone coming to you for a Tarot reading, your not concerned with what the cards were like when they were born, but the cards here and now for the burning question that has brought them in for a reading.

Sadly the non-natal part of Astrology has dwindled a lot, so much so that people associate Astrology solely with their birth sign and details. As you said in one of your previous posts, you would like to try both me, and your own reading. So I'll leave that still as a possibility but I'll get on with doing a reading for you.

I suggest a good question would be, 'How well will I perform in the competition on March 1?' as a starting point.

Now I'm going to make an assumption here, which I'd like you to come back on. The assumption is that there's more than you and one other competitor - it's not one singly one to one match. Rather I'm assuming that you may be involved in more than one match or have to play against several others. If I'm wrong here please get back to me.

I'll do the chart straight away and begin posting tomorrow (local time).
Top   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee View Post
Thanks Astraea, that on-line ephemeris is very helpful.

Astraea's advice on turning the chart sounds like good advice, however since Minderwiz hasn't yet really delved into turned charts/derived houses, and I'm a bit fearful of stepping into the unknown and finding myself with nothing to stand on. So I've decided to keep it simple and keep the chart unturned for now. After I feel more advanced, I'll certainly revisit this chart and try it the other way.
Lee there's no need to wait for me, if you feel it's something you'd like to try

If you are just concerned about your brother's well being and state of health, there's no need to turn the chart. As Astraea points out the condition and placement of Lord 3 will given you a very good guide to that.

Indeed I would only turn the chart if you were asking a supplementary question. For example if the condition of Lord 3 was such that ill health was indicated, then you might possibly look at the sixth house from the third, to learn more about the disease.

I used to do a lot of chart turning at one stage but now I only turn a chart if it's absolutely necessary. If you asked Will my brother marry his fiancee?' I'd first ascertain that you had no desires on the young lady and if I were convinced that your interest was solely with your brother, then I'd give him the first and the fiancee the seventh. It would be a chart in which you played no significant role. If you did have designs on the young lady, then brother is third and his fiancee is ninth, and you are first.
Top   #88
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kalliope  kalliope is offline
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I'll be tackling this thread today and tomorrow, looking at the charts, etc. I'm so glad you guys have been so active in getting it going. I was so vocal about my excitement at the beginning but then seemed to disappear, sorry!

I was sidetracked with installing virtual Windows (on my Mac) so I can run the Morinus programs natively, but I'll save that discussion for the software thread.
Top   #89
queen_of_wands  queen_of_wands is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
Thanks for that and sorry for the delay in getting back to you - Today has been rather busy to say the least!!

Looking at your link to astro.com the data appears to be for the time and place of your birth, rather than the time and place that you asked the question. Horary is independent of your birth details it is based solely on the time that you felt strongly enough about a matter to ask the question. It's a bit like someone coming to you for a Tarot reading, your not concerned with what the cards were like when they were born, but the cards here and now for the burning question that has brought them in for a reading.

Sadly the non-natal part of Astrology has dwindled a lot, so much so that people associate Astrology solely with their birth sign and details. As you said in one of your previous posts, you would like to try both me, and your own reading. So I'll leave that still as a possibility but I'll get on with doing a reading for you.

I suggest a good question would be, 'How well will I perform in the competition on March 1?' as a starting point.

Now I'm going to make an assumption here, which I'd like you to come back on. The assumption is that there's more than you and one other competitor - it's not one singly one to one match. Rather I'm assuming that you may be involved in more than one match or have to play against several others. If I'm wrong here please get back to me.

I'll do the chart straight away and begin posting tomorrow (local time).
Thank you, and yes there will be a lot of people there, people competing and people who have the potential to change my life as far as advancing my career to a whole new level.
Top   #90




 


 


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