Am I The Only Who Doesn't See the 6 of Pentacles as "Balance"?

Enlightenment23 said:

Granted, sometimes the socialite may receive good publicity for her good deeds.

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Um...that would be superficial and not balanced. Socialites have found love, happiness, a wider world in giving. THAT is what they are given by those who take they money—which often no longer has any real meaning or use to them--and it achieves a real balance in their lives...and that is the sort of thing this card is talking about. REAL balance, evident balance, not up in the air at all.

Understand, It's not that the card means this all the time. NO CARD means only one thing in each and every spread. Depending on where it is in the spread, what the other cards are, what the question is, it can mean a lot of things, and none of them have to be balance. BUT if we take the card OUT of spreads, and examine it on its own, then no, it is NOT up in the air as to whether the man giving the money is being given something in return of equal value. That IS what the card means.

And you missed one very important detail of my anecdote. The "worker who steals" from the government is a healthy citizen

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I didn't miss that at all. YOU missed MY comment that I was offering a REVERSE scenario to show you how the card could indicate BALANCE. Your example showed how the card was about a lack of balance, but I wanted to show you that depending on who you read it for, it could show balance. Your example is, to me, is an example of the card reversed not upright.

I still believe that the very core of the card rests on the concept of one side doing all the giving. Whether that balance is achieved, who knows? Just my two cents!

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But it's not "who knows?" Look. Someone comes to you and says, "I'm thinking giving a lot of money to this charity. Will I feel good about this or that it's a rip-off?" I get the feeling that if you got the 6/Pents, you'd say either "You're giving they're taking, and that's how you'll feel." Or "Who knows?" But I don't know why you think this when there are other cards that indicate giving/taking with a lack of balance.

The 6/Pents *exists* to indicate an exchange where there IS balance. Now you may not know how that will be achieved or when, but the card's very definition says that it WILL be achieved. So, for example, if someone asked me that question and I got the 7/Swords, I'd say, "Don't give to that charity! It's ripping you off!" But if I got the 6/Pents I'd say, "You will feel like they've given you as much as you gave them. Maybe not right away, but eventually. It will be an equal exchange."

Putting it another way, you seem to have assumed that the negative connotation of the card is it's one and only meaning. But it's not. It's the negative that is all about selfish taking or giving, and a lack of balance. The upright baseline meaning of the card is that in this exchange, the giver will take something from it and the taker will give, and it will be an equal exchange.

Barleywine said:

For what it's worth, the mastermind behind the deck, A.E. Waite, didn't see it as "balance" either. He described it as "present prosperity" and "success in life" manifesting as "goodness of heart." From the image, we don't know that the second beggar isn't just waiting his turn and will get his due momentarily. Although Waite also mentions "presents, gifts and gratifications," this seems to be a case of assumptions running away with people. It does beg the question, though "Why does the man have to weigh the money?" unless he's trying to make fair distribution. But couldn't he just count out the coins? This gets way too deep for what is supposed to be a fairly simple statement of material success.

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That's more resonant to me. But you do bring up the good point and it is perhaps why the "balance" keyword pops up every once in a while - the weighing of the money. It makes me wonder that, perhaps, he weighs to money to make sure that the balance of power remains the same (the wealthy stay as the haves and the poor stay as the have nots)? Hmm...!

Thirteen said:

Um...that would be superficial and not balanced. Socialites have found love, happiness, a wider world in giving. THAT is what they are given by those who take they money—which often no longer has any real meaning or use to them--and it achieves a real balance in their lives...and that is the sort of thing this card is talking about. REAL balance, evident balance, not up in the air at all.

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We're going to have to agree to disagree here, Thirteen. There are no guarantees that the giver gets a balanced return on their gifts. And I do believe it is up in the air. I can choose to begrudgingly hand over $100 to a friend who asks for it, but receive zilch for my good deed 'til the day I die. And another thing - no one but the giver can determine whether their returns were balanced. Some socialites DO see media attention as a balanced return on their charity, whether it's superficial or not. And some philanthropists genuinely feel "warm fuzzies" are sufficient enough "payment" for their good work.

Understand, It's not that the card means this all the time. NO CARD means only one thing in each and every spread. Depending on where it is in the spread, what the other cards are, what the question is, it can mean a lot of things, and none of them have to be balance. BUT if we take the card OUT of spreads, and examine it on its own, then no, it is NOT up in the air as to whether the man giving the money is being given something in return of equal value. That IS what the card means.

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I don't believe the card means one thing at all. But, again, I do not agree that "balance" is the right fit for this card.

Your example is, to me, is an example of the card reversed not upright.

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Well yes, that's what I said in my OP. That my anecdote was the shadow side of the card.

But it's not "who knows?" Look. Someone comes to you and says, "I'm thinking giving a lot of money to this charity. Will I feel good about this or that it's a rip-off?" I get the feeling that if you got the 6/Pents, you'd say either "You're giving they're taking, and that's how you'll feel." Or "Who knows?" But I don't know why you think this when there are other cards that indicate giving/taking with a lack of balance.

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It is "who knows?" in response to whether the giver will receive a balanced return on their gift. And that is my own view on the card. The card, to me, isn't about the aftermath of the giving, it's about the act itself.

In the end, I see it my way. You see it your way. And we both see it differently. Not a big deal. Thanks for your input!

I see it as a card of gluttony or charity....just depends on what the surrounding card indicate and what the question.

I never heard of it being called a card of balance...maybe balance in the meaning of being willing and able to give away one's material property to better someone else.

I'm fairly new to tarot so I haven't done huge amounts of research. But I tend to see cards in the light of what's happening around me and make sense of them that way.

I suppose I've also assumed an element of balance to the meaning, partly because of the scales but I never thought this was balance just for the characters in the card. My way of seeing this has always been a wider 'resdistribution of wealth' kind of balance.

Some people have significantly more than other people have and this manifests as a deep imbalance in society between the 'haves' and the 'have-nots' - of money, opportunity, material comfort, health, etc. If the materially successful give some of their wealth to poor then inequality can start to be reduced.

Imagery wise in the RWS, the way the rich man is ostentatiously dropping coins into the beggars hands detracts for me from this being an entirely altruistic cosmic balancing act and does imply some self interest. But I have also wondered if this harks back to a kind of patriarchal philanthropy where the rich felt they had the need and right to make decisions for the poor about what was best for them. (I think this is the way we are now heading with the kind of Conservatism our current Prime Minister stands for). We definitely have a social tendency to make judgements about the 'deserving' and 'undeserving' poor (e.g hard working but fallen on hard times vs lazy people, alcoholics and drug addicts). This is played out in the news media all the time.

In this sense the scales might show a weighing up of what is 'deserved' to make sure the charity goes to the 'right people' where is will be used to reduce inequality and not wasted on destructive habits.

I'm sure there's for more to the symbolism that I haven't grasped. But these are some of the things that come out for me when reading this card - willingness to share, motivations for sharing, how the receiver is viewed, judgements made about what amount to share etc

Interesting discussion, but I think I'll still treat it as a card of material success, plan and simple, in whatever area of life the question is about, and not get caught up in all the sociological noodling. In most real-world situations, I think it would be doing my querents a favor.

i have seen the 6 of pentacles as someone giving something they believe is what you need rather than what you actually need.

also i have seen it as someone who thinks they have the all information necessary to make the right decision. but they forgot to fact check the details, so the end result is pretty awful. everyone is poorer for it.

Barleywine said:

Interesting discussion, but I think I'll still treat it as a card of material success, plan and simple, in whatever area of life the question is about, and not get caught up in all the sociological noodling. In most real-world situations, I think it would be doing my querents a favor.

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Lol! Fair enough But the 'noodling' isn't academic. It's based on the very real world situations of people I know very well - people at the sharp end of political movements and sociological change that affect their daily material wellbeing deeply. One reading recently including the 6 of Pentacles directly related to a relatives disability benefit. But I appreciate the danger in being too 'macro' - it's a minor card after all.

empress's dress said:

i have seen the 6 of pentacles as someone giving something they believe is what you need rather than what you actually need.

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I can relate to that - so much charity is well-meaning and totally inappropriate !

I often see it as sharing resources. Maybe in some cases the only resource the other fellow has is a sincere "thank you" and a smile, but the other person is still getting something out of it (whether a tax break or a good feeling from a benevolent act).